Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-infrastructure-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-infrastructure-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 398661763E for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:07:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 43401 invoked by uid 500); 21 Jan 2015 00:07:24 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-infrastructure-dev-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 43265 invoked by uid 500); 21 Jan 2015 00:07:24 -0000 Mailing-List: contact infrastructure-dev-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: infrastructure-dev@apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list infrastructure-dev@apache.org Received: (qmail 43254 invoked by uid 99); 21 Jan 2015 00:07:24 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mail-relay.apache.org) (140.211.11.15) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:07:24 +0000 Received: from mail-lb0-f178.google.com (mail-lb0-f178.google.com [209.85.217.178]) by mail-relay.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mail-relay.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id 0EC8A1A037A for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:07:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u10so5952311lbd.9 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:07:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.17.197 with SMTP id q5mr41450547lbd.30.1421798840848; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.222.129 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:07:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4E0AE711-6F64-434C-86C9-A9811FC729D6@toolazydogs.com> <60F650F7-DEC5-4922-BC52-1D35092941CD@toolazydogs.com> <99E03293-38A7-45C6-8E59-6C39B6066733@toolazydogs.com> <412025A4-8FB0-44AE-9D2F-74DE9BA27E17@toolazydogs.com> <27CE4081-5F33-40E3-AC0F-F7823E3197BE@toolazydogs.com> <45FDAEE3-8701-4BA3-B3C3-57A7A7DDE6E1@toolazydogs.com> <933D3493-8B77-44F3-A76F-C7C80328DFAB@toolazydogs.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:07:20 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Brooklyn not in http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html From: jan i To: "infrastructure-dev@apache.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135f778d9d6e3050d1e56ad --001a1135f778d9d6e3050d1e56ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 21 January 2015 at 00:57, sebb wrote: > On 20 January 2015 at 23:43, jan i wrote: > > On 21 January 2015 at 00:23, sebb wrote: > > > >> On 20 January 2015 at 23:08, jan i wrote: > >> > On 20 January 2015 at 23:48, sebb wrote: > >> > > >> >> On 20 January 2015 at 21:12, Alan D. Cabrera > >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:00 PM, David Nalley wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Alan D. Cabrera < > >> list@toolazydogs.com > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 12:04 PM, David Nalley > wrote: > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Alan D. Cabrera < > >> >> list@toolazydogs.com> wrote: > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:56 AM, David Nalley > >> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Alan D. Cabrera < > >> >> list@toolazydogs.com > wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:31 AM, jan i > wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>> On 20 January 2015 at 20:22, Alan D. Cabrera < > >> >> list@toolazydogs.com > wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:19 AM, jan i > wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 20 January 2015 at 20:12, Alan D. Cabrera < > >> >> list@toolazydogs.com> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:08 AM, sebb > >> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 January 2015 at 18:12, Alan D. Cabrera < > >> >> adc@toolazydogs.com> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 10:08 AM, David Nalley < > >> david@gnsa.us> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a reason it needs to be added? > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That seems like an odd question and I would turn it > around > >> >> and ask, is > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> there a reason why it shouldn=E2=80=99t? > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRC that page is derived from the authorization fil= e > for > >> >> SVN - > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooklyn doesn't use svn, so no listing. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> It does not *need* an entry in asf-auth, but one can b= e > >> >> provided. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Time to fix the tooling=E2=80=A6 :) Where=E2=80=99s = the code that > >> generates > >> >> those > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> pages? > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> The tooling is not broken. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> There is currently no readily accessible data defining > the > >> >> members of > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> the Brooklyn podling. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Once a podling graduates, it will have an LDAP group. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Then what about all the other podlings that are on this > >> page? > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Documentation for podlings says you should update that > file, > >> so > >> >> I did it > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> for corinthia even though we use git, and it worked > nicely. > >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> What file are you speaking of? > >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>> this one > >> >> >>>>>>>> > >> >> > >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/subversion/author= ization/asf-authorization-template > >> >> < > >> >> > >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/subversion/author= ization/asf-authorization-template > >> >> > > >> >> >>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>> Search for "bookkeeper=3Dbreed" > >> >> >>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>> You need to add brooklyn after that line. Commit the file > and > >> the > >> >> rest > >> >> >>>>>>>> happens automatically within 24 hours (people.a.o is updat= ed > >> with > >> >> a cron > >> >> >>>>>>>> job). > >> >> >>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>> Is there a corresponding authorization file for git? > >> >> >>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> No > >> >> >>>>>> Git authorization is much more coarse. > >> >> >>>>>> tl;dr - we parse the name of the repo before the first > delimiter > >> and > >> >> >>>>>> look for a PMC in LDAP by that name and see if the committer > is a > >> >> >>>>>> member of that LDAP group. > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> By PMC I think you mean project, correct? But I=E2=80=99m no= t sure if > >> >> podlings are in LDAP. > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> No. > >> >> >>>> I meant PMC > >> >> >>>> Podlings are not projects in the top level sense, and have no > entry > >> >> in LDAP. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> So for podlings it=E2=80=99s all incubator committers, as Jan s= aid in > >> another > >> >> email? > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Correct. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> The podling committer membership and PPMC membership informatio= n > >> seems > >> >> to be spread around if at all. Does it make sense to create LDAP > groups > >> >> for them to provide a canonical source? > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> In my experience, podlings don't do a good job of keeping up wit= h > the > >> >> >> data that needs to be stored in so many locations. > >> >> >> (Their website, their status file, the svn auth file). Adding ye= t > >> >> >> another place to keep up with things seems the wrong direction t= o > >> >> >> head. > >> >> > > >> >> > I=E2=80=99m hearing a description of all the complicated things t= hat occur > >> >> because we don=E2=80=99t put podling membership information in LDAP= . > >> >> > >> >> What complicated things? > >> >> > >> >> > We can simplify that, that=E2=80=99s a tooling issue. > >> >> > there=E2=80=99s no requirement to have membership information in = a website > and > >> >> if there is it should be auto generated from LDAP anyway > >> >> > the status file should be auto generated from LDAP anyway > >> >> > the svn auth file should be pulling info from LDAP and does do th= at > >> for > >> >> non-podlings > >> >> > >> >> Not every group in the SVN auth file is in LDAP > >> >> > >> >> >> Presumably if we added an LDAP group for the podling we'd also > need > >> to > >> >> >> add a PPMC group for the podling as well. > >> >> > >> >> No, I don't think that would be required. > >> >> Or a good thing, because PPMCs are not PMCs. > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes, and that would be a good thing. > >> >> > >> >> It would be more work for Infra and the podling. > >> >> There is no distinction between PPMC and podling committers. > >> >> This only occurs once the podling graduates. > >> >> > >> >> >> I am also not sure that it gives a lot of advantages, and I know > it > >> >> >> adds overhead, overhead that can currently only be dealt with by= a > >> PMC > >> >> >> Chair. With that said, what problem are we actually trying to > solve? > >> >> > > >> >> > The problem that there is no source for PPMC membership at all an= d > >> that > >> >> podling membership is implicitly managed in an SVN auth file. > >> >> > >> >> The source is the SVN auth file. > >> >> > >> > Actually not ! the SVN auth file contains all committers for a > podling, > >> but > >> > not who is PPMC. > >> > >> I was under the impression that the PPMC consisted of all the > >> committers for the podling. > >> > > > > Initial committers =3D=3D initial PPMC. > > Agreed. > > > But committers added after the podling > > entered incubator might, but need not be PPMC. > > That is news to me; I thought the idea was building community rather > than acquiring developers but I could be wrong. > Since when is PMC (or PPMC) =3D=3D community ? Of course the idea is to build community, but we have a clear definition of roles for committer and PMC (PPMC). To me a community is contributors+committers+PMC in short everyone who is active in the project. Btw, committers is not only developers but all kind of people interested in a subset of the project (e.g. Documentation) whiich I am sure you agree to. rgds jan I. > > > > > the same goes for mentors, initial mentors =3D=3D PPMC and commiter. Th= ose > who > > are added later should be voted in. > > > > Some podlings have a rule committers =3D=3D PPMC but not all. > > > > > >> > >> At graduation time, those committers who are no longer involved will > >> generally not be included in the initial PMC. > >> > > > > I have understood this differently. Those PPMC members who are no longe= r > > involved will not be included in the initial PMC. > > It's only different if committers !=3D PPMC. > Since I assumed they were equal, when I wrote committers I could have > written PPMC. > > > I had the impression that PPMC members are asked if they want to be PMC > as > > part of the graduation process (no voting just asking). > > So long as there is general consensus I don't think it matters whether > there is a vote or not. > But I would expect only active committers to become members of the > initial PMC, because it is important that the PMC are fully engaged > with the project going forward. > For this reason mentors may not wish to join the initial PMC - their > job is done (if not, the podling is not ready!) > > > rgds > > jan i. > > > > > >> > >> > > >> >> Frankly, I=E2=80=99m surprised that I=E2=80=99m getting pushback in= putting podling > >> group > >> >> information in LDAP. > >> >> > >> >> It would be more work overall. > >> >> The LDAP group would have to be created (and then deleted if the > >> >> podling does not graduate). > >> >> > >> >> And the group would still have to be maintained by someone. > >> >> > >> >> It's no harder to update the SVN auth file than to update LDAP. > >> >> Indeed I would say it is simpler. And it's obvious who is already i= n > the > >> >> group. > >> >> > >> > I agree on that, but that would currently only give committers not > PPMC > >> of > >> > a podling. > >> > > >> > The only place PPMC is registred is in the podlings status file (xml= ). > >> > >> That assumes there is a difference between committers and PPMC for a > >> podling. > >> As I wrote above, that is not my understanding. > >> > >> > rgds > >> > jan i > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards, > >> >> > Alan > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > --001a1135f778d9d6e3050d1e56ad--