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From sebb <seb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Brooklyn not in http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html
Date Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:57:24 GMT
On 20 January 2015 at 23:43, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> On 21 January 2015 at 00:23, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20 January 2015 at 23:08, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
>> > On 20 January 2015 at 23:48, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 20 January 2015 at 21:12, Alan D. Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:00 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us>
wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <
>> list@toolazydogs.com
>> >> <mailto:list@toolazydogs.com>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 12:04 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us>
wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <
>> >> list@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:56 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Alan D. Cabrera
<
>> >> list@toolazydogs.com <mailto:list@toolazydogs.com>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:31 AM, jan i <jani@apache.org>
wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> On 20 January 2015 at 20:22, Alan D. Cabrera
<
>> >> list@toolazydogs.com <mailto:list@toolazydogs.com>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:19 AM, jan
i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 20 January 2015 at 20:12, Alan
D. Cabrera <
>> >> list@toolazydogs.com>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:08
AM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 January 2015 at 18:12,
Alan D. Cabrera <
>> >> adc@toolazydogs.com>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015,
at 10:08 AM, David Nalley <
>> david@gnsa.us>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a reason
it needs to be added?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That seems like an
odd question and I would turn it around
>> >> and ask, is
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> there a reason why it shouldn’t?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRC that page
is derived from the authorization file for
>> >> SVN -
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooklyn doesn't
use svn, so no listing.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> It does not *need* an entry
in asf-auth, but one can be
>> >> provided.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Time to fix the tooling…
:)  Where’s the code that
>> generates
>> >> those
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> pages?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> The tooling is not broken.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> There is currently no readily
accessible data defining the
>> >> members of
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> the Brooklyn podling.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Once a podling graduates,
it will have an LDAP group.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Then what about all the other
podlings that are on this
>> page?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Documentation for podlings says
you should update that file,
>> so
>> >> I did it
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> for corinthia even though we use
git, and it worked nicely.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> What file are you speaking of?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> this one
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/subversion/authorization/asf-authorization-template
>> >> <
>> >>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/subversion/authorization/asf-authorization-template
>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Search for "bookkeeper=breed"
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> You need to add brooklyn after that line.
Commit the file and
>> the
>> >> rest
>> >> >>>>>>>> happens automatically within 24 hours (people.a.o
is updated
>> with
>> >> a cron
>> >> >>>>>>>> job).
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> Is there a corresponding authorization file
for git?
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> No
>> >> >>>>>> Git authorization is much more coarse.
>> >> >>>>>> tl;dr - we parse the name of the repo before the
first delimiter
>> and
>> >> >>>>>> look for a PMC in LDAP by that name and see if
the committer is a
>> >> >>>>>> member of that LDAP group.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> By PMC I think you mean project, correct?  But I’m
not sure if
>> >> podlings are in LDAP.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> No.
>> >> >>>> I meant PMC
>> >> >>>> Podlings are not projects in the top level sense, and have
no entry
>> >> in LDAP.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> So for podlings it’s all incubator committers, as Jan said
in
>> another
>> >> email?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Correct.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> The podling committer membership and PPMC membership information
>> seems
>> >> to be spread around if at all.  Does it make sense to create LDAP groups
>> >> for them to provide a canonical source?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In my experience, podlings don't do a good job of keeping up with
the
>> >> >> data that needs to be stored in so many locations.
>> >> >> (Their website, their status file, the svn auth file). Adding yet
>> >> >> another place to keep up with things seems the wrong direction
to
>> >> >> head.
>> >> >
>> >> > I’m hearing a description of all the complicated things that occur
>> >> because we don’t put podling membership information in LDAP.
>> >>
>> >> What complicated things?
>> >>
>> >> > We can simplify that, that’s a tooling issue.
>> >> > there’s no requirement to have membership information in a website
and
>> >> if there is it should be auto generated from LDAP anyway
>> >> > the status file should be auto generated from LDAP anyway
>> >> > the svn auth file should be pulling info from LDAP and does do that
>> for
>> >> non-podlings
>> >>
>> >> Not every group in the SVN auth file is in LDAP
>> >>
>> >> >> Presumably if we added an LDAP group for the podling we'd also
need
>> to
>> >> >> add a PPMC group for the podling as well.
>> >>
>> >> No, I don't think that would be required.
>> >> Or a good thing, because PPMCs are not PMCs.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, and that would be a good thing.
>> >>
>> >> It would be more work for Infra and the podling.
>> >> There is no distinction between PPMC and podling committers.
>> >> This only occurs once the podling graduates.
>> >>
>> >> >> I am also not sure that it gives a lot of advantages, and I know
it
>> >> >> adds overhead, overhead that can currently only be dealt with by
a
>> PMC
>> >> >> Chair. With that said, what problem are we actually trying to solve?
>> >> >
>> >> > The problem that there is no source for PPMC membership at all and
>> that
>> >> podling membership is implicitly managed in an SVN auth file.
>> >>
>> >> The source is the SVN auth file.
>> >>
>> > Actually not ! the SVN auth file contains all committers for a podling,
>> but
>> > not who is PPMC.
>>
>> I was under the impression that the PPMC consisted of all the
>> committers for the podling.
>>
>
> Initial committers == initial PPMC.

Agreed.

> But committers added after the podling
> entered incubator might, but need not be PPMC.

That is news to me; I thought the idea was building community rather
than acquiring developers  but I could be wrong.

>
> the same goes for mentors, initial mentors == PPMC and commiter. Those who
> are added later should be voted in.
>
> Some podlings have a rule committers == PPMC but not all.
>
>
>>
>> At graduation time, those committers who are no longer involved will
>> generally not be included in the initial PMC.
>>
>
> I have understood this differently. Those PPMC members who are no longer
> involved will not be included in the initial PMC.

It's only different if committers != PPMC.
Since I assumed they were equal, when I wrote committers I could have
written PPMC.

> I had the impression that PPMC members are asked if they want to be PMC as
> part of the graduation process (no voting just asking).

So long as there is general consensus I don't think it matters whether
there is a vote or not.
But I would expect only active committers to become members of the
initial PMC, because it is important that the PMC are fully engaged
with the project going forward.
For this reason mentors may not wish to join the initial PMC - their
job is done (if not, the podling is not ready!)

> rgds
> jan i.
>
>
>>
>> >
>> >> Frankly, I’m surprised that I’m getting pushback in putting podling
>> group
>> >> information in LDAP.
>> >>
>> >> It would be more work overall.
>> >> The LDAP group would have to be created (and then deleted if the
>> >> podling does not graduate).
>> >>
>> >> And the group would still have to be maintained by someone.
>> >>
>> >> It's no harder to update the SVN auth file than to update LDAP.
>> >> Indeed I would say it is simpler. And it's obvious who is already in the
>> >> group.
>> >>
>> > I agree on that, but that would currently only give committers not PPMC
>> of
>> > a podling.
>> >
>> > The only place PPMC is registred is in the podlings status file (xml).
>>
>> That assumes there is a difference between committers and PPMC for a
>> podling.
>> As I wrote above, that is not my understanding.
>>
>> > rgds
>> > jan i
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Alan
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>

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