From infrastructure-dev-return-512-apmail-infrastructure-dev-archive=apache.org@apache.org Sat May 03 09:43:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-infrastructure-dev-archive@locus.apache.org Received: (qmail 83798 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 09:43:34 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 3 May 2008 09:43:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 29113 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 09:43:35 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-infrastructure-dev-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 29047 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 09:43:35 -0000 Mailing-List: contact infrastructure-dev-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: infrastructure-dev@apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list infrastructure-dev@apache.org Received: (qmail 29036 invoked by uid 99); 3 May 2008 09:43:35 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 02:43:35 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of santiago.gala@gmail.com designates 66.249.92.175 as permitted sender) Received: from [66.249.92.175] (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.175) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 09:42:47 +0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 29so255351ugo.26 for ; Sat, 03 May 2008 02:43:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uQ33ZRFgf9q47EMxtUZZMBGfjYKAqr8rchczW0mMPc8=; b=g06medflCc+fmIdQ1wgZ+TVwGe9ZZtXz3+kcbCVjE+XVE73uYxFYD3t1KnGnPUsSEYVU4ky4HnUw0vZoQPgx/fuZ6zz/FNZ7KcSNUxeB+kbXfZVNYPgDjN9LuRganKVl7AfmAiBvkjfIAJdGWTyNuB9XZtPIgRWW6nyxRPtDIlA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=vxrKGWZCrZ5GQMmsp2qtZLWVtSG+Vw797IsoAOk7LnDdqLTw1k68wZXww/Lot1sDNCvcF32TUSauW0cKMZMLM/D26u6tji3/IYC13r3k6sIKFvBCXFYiuKYWn7b6t5nwSh096sFmo1i4tHxptmYWP5aMH9dafyCX/s17pKc6+7o= Received: by 10.67.115.15 with SMTP id s15mr1238272ugm.63.1209807779210; Sat, 03 May 2008 02:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?172.27.70.188? ( [81.33.31.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f13sm4819697gvd.2.2008.05.03.02.42.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 03 May 2008 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [scm] Discussing vs. doing (Was: Best Practices so far?) From: Santiago Gala To: infrastructure-dev@apache.org In-Reply-To: <510143ac0805020605i61605033vac9077afd3c603e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <510143ac0805020605i61605033vac9077afd3c603e8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 11:45:44 +0200 Message-Id: <1209807944.12214.11.camel@marlow> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org El vie, 02-05-2008 a las 16:05 +0300, Jukka Zitting escribió: > Hi, > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Grzegorz Kossakowski > wrote: > > As I previously said at @infra I'm not that much interested in discussions > > with [dSCM] tag even if they are enjoyable to read from time to time. I > > think that we should focus on _doing something_ and my choice is to let > > existing Apache committers to try out dSCM tools in a full manner. > > The reason why at least I wanted to focus on use cases at first is to > make it clear WHY we need better tools instead of focusing directly on > WHAT those tools should be or HOW we should be using them. The latter > questions are of course quite essential, but especially given the > heated opinions about this topic I think it's very important that we > make it clear that the need for better tools is real and that we're > not just looking for shiny new toys. > +1 For me just the unconnected operation and speed improvements on browsing and searching are worth it. > I think now that we already have a good body of valid use cases (see > the archives) we can start focusing more on the implementation > details. Also, I think the discussions so far have quite clearly shown > that we should be looking at incremental improvements on a number of > fronts, including svn upgrades (1.5) and enhanced server infra (eu > mirror, etc.), better interoperability with various scm clients > (git-svn, IDEs), guidelines for patch and branch workflows, etc. > re: interoperability, some people is using mercurial too. I rejected it for my personal use due to it requiring a subversion checkout, which is typically bigger than a whole git repository + working copy, branch management and the convoluted commit integration. I also prefer the git gui. But I guess we should document about it too. I think someone at shindig published a detailed guide to get a mercurial setup going. re: IDEs, I have built egit a number of times, and I guess I could provide an eclipse update site for it, in case people want it. But I think the most important part of it is how we enhance the global knowledge about the concepts and implications of SCM. Computer Science curriculi have typically little to no exposure to the concepts (at least here, just bits of it around life-cycle management), so this is something that people is typically forced to learn "on the job". So anything we can do to improve the quality of patches and branch management is good for the ASF. > So, I'm happy as we can move on to actually doing things and solving > the detailed problems we come across, but I also hope people > understand the value of having spent some time just discussing the > issues in general. I believe that we now have a much better collective > understanding of what the key issues are and how we should go about > solving them. > +1 My understanding of all the issues is much better now. > > (andd of course: infra is busy with higher-priority tasks so my wish is not > > intended to be fulfilled right away) > > +1! > > BR, > > Jukka Zitting Regards -- Santiago Gala http://memojo.com/~sgala/blog/