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From bo...@guardian.no
Subject Re: An interface to Apache
Date Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:47:04 GMT
[Andy Rutter]
| >  - should NOT use CGI 
| Disagree. Java, etc. have their place, but not in a simple admin
| interface.  I've yet to see a simple application done in Java that
| couldn't have been implemented just as effectively in HTML forms,
| JavaScript and CGI.  CGI may be relatively slow, but I don't think
| we're talking about high-performance applications here.

as I've said before in an earliler mail today; I find CGI extremely
limiting in that it imposes an offline session-by-session way of
dealing with your data.  I have been developing applications that use
this for nearly 4 years now and I have to admit that I have written
code that I am downright ashamed of on occasions just to overcome the
limitations in CGI.

if we are to create a GUI it should at least be an interactive one.
not a session-by-session one.

(did I mention how much I hate the Netscape way of administrating
 servers? :-)

| Something like the Netscape admin UI should be our initial target,
| leaving the more esoteric until later.

I think we can, and should, do a better job than that.

| >  - should have a user interface layer that is separated from the
| >    "engine".
| Agree. The hard part of defining the Apache Admin UI will be in the
| API to admin functions. The CGI/whatever code MUST NOT hack directly
| on the config files.

I agreee.

| >  - should be written in a language that actually works 
| Agree - C or Perl.

I was trying to say "forget Java".  for the server parts I think C is
probably the only viable option.  Perl might be a solution as a
tape-and-chewing-gum solution in the interim, but managers often have
a strong distaste for scripting languages like Perl and Tcl.  and if
this is to be a success we need people to use it.

| In addition, SNMP capability would be useful. I'm running a project
| that will see 150+ Apache server installed in remote locations, with
| non-computer-literate users (assuming that the NT version comes
| together within the timescale). The project will not work unless
| there is a way of doing remote administration.

good idea.  this could be implemented in a mod_snmp on Apache httpd.
and then have either the configuration server or the client (or both)
talk to it.

| Some time ago, I made a start on a HTML/CGI admin interface for
| Apache. But, as it wasn't a customer project, it got put on the
| back-burner in favour of something that paid money!

you are not alone :-)

 Bjørn Borud <borud@guardian.no>       | "The Net interprets censorship 
 <URL:http://www.pvv.unit.no/~borud/>  | as damage and routes around it."
 UNIX person, one of "them"            |         - John Gilmore

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