Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-community-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-community-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 159E1119B9 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2014 15:46:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 51089 invoked by uid 500); 2 Jul 2014 15:46:34 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-community-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 50703 invoked by uid 500); 2 Jul 2014 15:46:34 -0000 Mailing-List: contact community-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: community@apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list community@apache.org Received: (qmail 50693 invoked by uid 99); 2 Jul 2014 15:46:34 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2014 15:46:34 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_SOFTFAIL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: softfail (athena.apache.org: transitioning domain of dennis.hamilton@acm.org does not designate 216.119.133.2 as permitted sender) Received: from [216.119.133.2] (HELO a2s42.a2hosting.com) (216.119.133.2) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2014 15:46:29 +0000 Received: from 75-165-99-24.tukw.qwest.net ([75.165.99.24]:33202 helo=Astraendo2) by a2s42.a2hosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1X2MjW-004KjN-02; Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:46:06 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Dennis E. Hamilton" To: Cc: "'David Welton'" References: <1CF232CF-16A3-43D3-8102-E11FF7E2465B@webweaving.org> In-Reply-To: <1CF232CF-16A3-43D3-8102-E11FF7E2465B@webweaving.org> Subject: RE: Government License Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 08:46:05 -0700 Organization: NuovoDoc Message-ID: <007701cf960c$bd8dbb30$38a93190$@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01CF95D2.1132B3C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQLMCWb+3Syq2JQzuxXjyVCwEF52gwKWxqZrAoiAX/8BoHvTdQHbfXGfmU8nQjA= Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s42.a2hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - apache.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - acm.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: a2s42.a2hosting.com: authenticated_id: himself+orcmid.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01CF95D2.1132B3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The application of local law is a different matter. There is generally = no reason to specify it in a license. Software with a mandated = back-door or key-escrow arrangement in its implementation can certainly = be open-source unless there is a legal prohibition of disclosing such = code, in which case it is not open-source, is it (and that action may be = in violation of an open-source license, but that=E2=80=99s a different = matter). =20 Disclaimers and statements of warranty are different, although some = licenses require that disclaimers be preserved. It is one thing to = disclaim software as unsuitable for use in situations where there are = hazards to life and property, such as nuclear reactor control software = or pacemaker devices, and another to have the software be open-source. =20 =20 The famous Java disclaimer about life-threatening situations is a = disclaimer. The obligation to perpetuate the disclaimer is part of a = licensing arrangement around the Java trademark and certification = process, and doesn=E2=80=99t have anything to do with open-source = licensing. The OpenJDK is under GPL2 with a class-path exception, so = there is explicitly no warranty whatsoever for any use whatsoever. The = special Java disclaimer is not present. (See = http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk9/jdk9/jdk/file/2df45ac1bf49/LICENSE. =20 - Dennis =20 From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:dirkx@webweaving.org]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 01:46 To: community@apache.org Cc: David Welton Subject: Re: Government License =20 =20 Op 2 jul. 2014, om 10:33 heeft Greg Stein > het volgende geschreven: [ =E2=80=A6 ] =20 But I think the situation around this is a bit more complex there - and = I think, we, as a community, should cut developers a bit more slack. As = there you run into the issue that local laws, legislation and = regulation. Which can force developers in specific communities to be = cautious for certain areas. A well known one is software used in nuclear = installations; others are medical (in quite a few countries), military = (in very few) and aviation (decreasingly the case). =20 Dw. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01CF95D2.1132B3C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The = application of local law is a different matter.=C2=A0 There is generally no reason to = specify it in a license.=C2=A0 = Software with a mandated back-door or key-escrow arrangement in = its implementation can certainly be open-source unless there is a legal = prohibition of disclosing such code, in which case it is not = open-source, is it (and that action may be in violation of an = open-source license, but that=E2=80=99s a different = matter).

 

Disclaimers = and statements of warranty are different, although some licenses require = that disclaimers be preserved.=C2=A0 = It is one thing to disclaim software as unsuitable for use in = situations where there are hazards to life and property, such as nuclear = reactor control software or pacemaker devices, and another to have the = software be open-source.=C2=A0 =

 

The famous = Java disclaimer about life-threatening situations is a disclaimer.=C2=A0 The obligation to perpetuate = the disclaimer is part of a licensing arrangement around the Java = trademark and certification process, and doesn=E2=80=99t have anything = to do with open-source licensing.=C2=A0 = The OpenJDK is under GPL2 with a = class-path exception, so there is explicitly no warranty whatsoever for = any use whatsoever. The special Java disclaimer is not present. (See http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk9/jdk9/jdk/file/2df45ac1bf49/LICENSE= .

 

-   = Dennis

 

From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik = [mailto:dirkx@webweaving.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 = 01:46
To: = community@apache.org
Cc: David Welton
Subject: Re: Government = License

 

 

Op = 2 jul. 2014, om 10:33 heeft Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> het volgende = geschreven:


[ = =E2=80=A6 ]

 

But = I think the situation around this is a bit more complex there - and I = think, we, as a community, should cut developers a bit more slack. As = there you run into the issue that local laws, legislation and = regulation. Which can force developers in specific communities to be = cautious for certain areas. A well known one is software used in nuclear = installations; others are medical (in quite a few = countries), military (in very few) and aviation (decreasingly the = case).

 

Dw.

 

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