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From "Jean T. Anderson" <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: At what point do you unsubscribe/deny a misbehaving user?
Date Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:28:40 GMT
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Dec 16, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Jean T. Anderson wrote:
> 
>> derby-user@db.apache.org has been grappling with someone who  delights 
>> in belittling other posters on the list. The topic was  raised on 
>> women@ (see the thread starting with http://mail- 
>> archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-women/200511.mbox/%3c4371355F. 
>> 90508@debrunners.com%3e ), but I think it's more appropriate for  this 
>> list.
> 
> 
> For crying out loud, would you please supply links to the exact posts
> you consider to be in poor taste and the person's name?  I just wasted
> 10 minutes trying to follow the bread crumbs.  You have to make it
> easier on reviewers -- everyone seems to be painfully avoiding
> a pointer to an actual message.

sorry -- I'm not trying to frustrate folks. I considered posting 
specific links, but withdrew them at the end, even though they are links 
to public archives. The name at the core is Michael Segel.

Below are links to public responses to some of his posts (which are 
numerous enough that they alone would be frustrating to wade through):

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200508.mbox/%3C430DECF5.2070609@bristowhill.com%3E
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200510.mbox/%3c43622C54.8030502@sun.com%3e
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200511.mbox/%3C2EDE6E68-7660-467A-92F4-BC4858E44A3F@sun.com%3E
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200512.mbox/%3c439D9A71.4060905@bristowhill.com%3e
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200512.mbox/%3c439DC2A5.3010703@sun.com%3e

The first two posts were disassociated from the offending message and 
the tactic clearly didn't work.

The last two were recent (this week). Off line communication makes me 
believe he has no intention of moderating his behavior, hence the 
question of at what point you unsubscribe/deny a user.

> In general, it is the responsibility of the PMC to govern its own
> lists.  If the PMC decides to boot them, then go ahead.  Most
> groups just shun the user.

One of the DB PMC members was asking about frequency of denial, which is 
an excellent question, which Noel responded to with "Rarely.  Really 
really rarely."  It's helpful for us to know how other projects at the 
ASF handle such situations. I'm getting questions from users asking why 
we don't just boot him. I'm happy to respond with "The ASF doesn't like 
to do that except for the most extreme cases" if that is the right 
answer. This case is merely very annoying, not extreme.

I think ignoring is an excellent tactic for a developer's list. I worry 
that isn't strong enough for a user's list, but I also wouldn't want to 
embark on a path that could backfire.

-jean

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