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From Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
Subject Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed
Date Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:35:57 GMT
On Thursday 16 December 2004 22:51, J Aaron Farr wrote:
>  In fact, Niclas, why don't you open up
> all the merlin-tlp@bali.ac archives?  I seem to remember quite a few
> conversations by the Metro TLP team about wanting to, what was it?, "clean
> up the kitchen" or "take out the trash" in reference to cleaning up the
> "dead" committers in Avalon.

1. It was not a mailing list per se. There are no archives, only what you have 
on your hard disk.

2. Isn't it great that you can "quote" without a source, taking things out of 
context without worrying about public scrutiny. You have really outdone 
yourself in this one, though...

> I'm sorry you've got an ax to grind with Greg.  His comment was 
> _not_ about defending Leo Sutic.

3. For the record, the incident with Greg is IMO something that happened, 
which I still think was utterly unappropriate (Why don't *you* open the mail 
archives around it?), but not to be held against him for all times.
Furthermore, I didn't took it personally. I don't know if the law has been 
changed recently in France and Germany, but it has been illegal to even 
publish the words, and definately libel. Now, please stand with a straight 
face and say that was Ok, for for instance our german middle-aged member.


> Who wants to commit any code or do anything in an environment as 
> poisonous as Avalon was at the time? 

4. So you don't want to spend any time in Avalon, but you really do want to 
make it hard for everyone else? There has to be more than one to have a 
disagreement.

> The only ones willing to keep committing were
> those who were determined to bulldoze there agenda into the repository.

5. In a positive atmosphere, it would be called; "Prepared to take action, 
when paralysis had set into the community." The agenda was to promote Merlin 
into a platform for component oriented architecture. When that was considered 
being against approx half the PMC and some additional developers, we started 
the process of taking Merlin to TLP, but the Excalibur group just needed to 
be better, and by throwing in a second proposal, at least one member of the 
Board intervened privately, and asked us to drop the Merlin TLP and forge 
ahead with the new vision. Now, I call that a mandate. Yet, Excalibur TLP 
without me and Steve was manna from heaven for this group, but it was 
definately a matter of balkanization along people and not technology. 
Something Mr Coar would never agree to.

> Not everyone understood the development goals of the two 
> communities (Excalibur and Merlin) and how they were different.

6. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.

> Community health is the chief concern of the Board when
> approving TLPs, whereas many Merlin TLP proponents didn't even 
> recognize that this was a valid concern.  There wasn't a willingness to 
> work together.

7. Not willing to work together? Leo Sutic started on some very neutral aspect 
orientation stuff, which both I and Steve supported, but when the main driver 
runs out of air, what do expect? The 'accusers' of that Steve and I were 
unwilling to co-operate, only bring up that we refuse to make implementations 
to their whimps. Except for the /LS initiative, I can't recall any other, 
where we tried to stop any progress, that someone wanted to persue. Only 
recall the opposite. We do something, everyone else want to block it.
Give me some examples where we were not willing to work together. FUD is hard 
to argue against.

> Then why in the world are you bringing your grief back here?

8. "grief". My dear little boy, if you call this "grief" you don't know much 
about life. Call me when someone really near to you pass away, and then we 
can talk about grief.
Maybe I am just satanistic sadist who like to kick a dead horse. Maybe I 
happen to think that a great injustice has been made, and don't like when 
people make statements portrayed as facts, when they at the most can be 
called perceptions.


Niclas


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