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From Steven Noels <stev...@outerthought.org>
Subject Re: Style of community building
Date Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:50:42 GMT
> 2. The described 'worst-case' scenario, makes me not inclined to take 
> Merlin
> away from the ASF.

Are you hinting at the bank story? Hm. Quite frankly, I think people 
are being oversold on the size of the Merlin community ATM, and 
individual cases are being extrapolated into broad tendencies. We use 
Merlin in a project of ours, BTW. The code and vision are good. If the 
license terms stay the same, we wouldn't care too much about whether 
Merlin is an Apache project or not. I must honestly say I've been 
personally considering to offer you guys a Subversion repository if you 
really don't want to go to Sourceforge.

> from that follows a set of options,
> a. A TLP.
> b. The Incubator.
> c. Another project/federation.
> a. is what we have opted for as the most preferred scenario from our
> perspective.

For better or for worse, creating TLPs to fulfill personal desires 
isn't the business of the ASF. I see the Metro TLP request as a way to 
steer around the actual problems, and I also see the value of being 
part of the Apache family being less appreciated than it should. 
Whether you like this or not, the foundation isn't only about simple 
implementation or interpretation of rules - it's primarily about 
people. If people start evaluating rules as to check whether there's a 
way to still settle their own private agendas, something rotten is 
going on.

> b. is in the group considered a "death sentence". Be that an 
> overstatement,
> some users are indicating it to be a signal of the negative kind.

Being a member of the Incubator PMC, this obviously hits some nerves 
with me. Any ASF project, at any time, should have no issues at all 
with passing the simple criteria that were established in order to be 
able to enter the foundation. Saying incubation would mean a death 
sentence for Metro means you already know about severe issues with 
these criteria. Or you suspect that we are biased in judging Metro 
along these criteria. If that would be the case, I'm really sure that 
everyone on the Incubation PMC is mature enough to abstain if he feels 
too biased.

> c. we are unable to see that the technology fits naturally within any 
> other
> project, but I am all ears if there is an opinion towards this.

An confrontational but well-wishing advise from me would be to take 
Metro out of Apache for 6 to 12 months, and re-approach Apache as a 
fresh project with no murky past after that.

Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML            An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at            http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org                stevenn at apache.org

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