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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Style of community building
Date Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:38:51 GMT
Niclas Hedhman wrote:

> b. The Incubator.


> b. is in the group considered a "death sentence". Be that an overstatement, 
> some users are indicating it to be a signal of the negative kind.

Steven already said loud and clear and with very nice wording, but let 
me state one example for all: the Lenya people went thru hell and back 
with the incubator, also accepting policies that were continously 
changing, demonstrating lots of patience and will to collaborate, they 
hang on, even when it was frustrating and *I* was pissed at the 
incubator PMC for not saying the same thing the same week.

They had big customers, they risked their assets in the event of a 
'death sentence' (a real one) and they made several big mistakes that 
forced the mentors to get in and say "look, one other thing like this 
and you are out".

They learned, they stimulated a community, which is now diverse, 
friendly and healthy from all possible senses and even ego attachments 
to some of the architectural issues were diluted in the process and 
there is no more sign of that.

Result, a long time after that, they graduated. They *earned it*. The 
hard way, now they are trusted peers.

Merlin/Metro still has to go thru all that and you tell everybody that 
you think that would be a death sentence?

Believe me, Niclas, you were a lot more closer to TLP a week ago where I 
was willing to believe that Stephen was the problem and all you guys 
were just trying to help out and work with me to fix him.

Now I think that several people in Merlin just want to cover their ass 
for their poor decisions and they don't care if they will abuse the 
foundation (and disrespect fellow committers) in doing so.

If you believed in the technology, the brand should not care.

If you believed in the brand and in what it stands for, then you would 
not think that you would be killed by incubation.

If you are not willing to pay the price of being inside the foundation, 
you don't deserve to be here.

You want an easy way to earn the best position in the foundation and you 
are not willing to pay anything for it, just waiving some silly 
guilt-play for those who invested in a technology without understanding 
that the dynamics behind it were screwed.

Well, this is *abusive*. This is wrong. This is just an insult for those 
people that went thru all that to earn their merit.

And when asked *expliticly* to address our concerns about 
community-style, you just look the other way.

Tell me: what would *you* do in my shoes?


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