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From Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Style of community building
Date Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:08:22 GMT
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 September 2004 20:27, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>>>Rightly or wrongly so, the tone of "competition" in Avalon was set well
>>>before the emergence of Merlin. That was bad. So now the train was
>>>moving, and noone pulled the breaks, not any individual, not the PMC, not
>>>the PMC Chair, not the community, not the Board - noone. That was also
>>I can't fix the past, but...
>>Sam reaches for brakes.
>>Sam grasps brakes.
>>Sam pulls.
> That (whatever the pull symbolizes) should have been done 18-24 months ago :o)


> Hindsight is easy, and I am not sure whether your intention is to punish parts 
> (not all) of those who made it happen, plus some people who hasn't been 
> involved (for instance commercial users).

The intent is not to punish anyone, at all.  For example, how are 
commercial users damaged in any way by the way the ASF choses to 
organize its work into projects?  This is not meant to be a rhetorical 
question, I am genuinely curious.

> Did my suggestion reach you at all, or is it considered, what Ken refers to 
> as, a "hand wave" ? 

Since you asked, I'll share my perception.  Warning: it might not be 
what you expect.

When someone points out that Ken has erred, he investigates the root 
cause, shares it, and takes full responsibility for the error.

In this case, somebody pointed out an instance where somebody has erred, 
and I interpreted the response as "sure I erred, but everybody else did 
too, and here is some other irrelevant consideration".

I consider those portions of the message to be hand waves.

We can discuss other things if you like, but until there is a proposal 
which adequately covers the technical and community aspects, you won't 
have this director's vote.

- Sam Ruby

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