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From Henning Schmiedehausen <...@intermeta.de>
Subject Re: Inexpensive Lists
Date Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:07:14 GMT
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 23:50, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On Wednesday, July 21, 2004 4:01 PM -0400 Stefano Mazzocchi 
> <stefano@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> > I completely disagree with this view.
> 
> I don't see why the ASF *has* to support water-cooler conversations.  It 
> just doesn't coincide with our mission.  Other people and sites can run 
> them individually outside of the ASF - I've no problem with that *at all*.

Because we are human beings. Huddling together around the camp fire and
swapping war stories is part of our nature. That's why I think that a
community@ list is appropriate. I don't consider myself a robot cranking
out code for the ASF. 

[...]

> I'm also peeved by the response of 'create a new mailing list' to almost 
> any problem.  It's terribly uncreative and places a *lot* of burden on 
> those who are stuck running the infrastructure.

Actually, I take offense of this paragraph. If you are 'stuck' running
the infrastructure, why don't you let others help you? I still found no
way to communicate with the infrastructure people to offer *help*. When
eyebrowse broke down (e.g. for the Turbine lists), I asked on
infrastructure@ and offered to help getting it back up (I do run a few
servers over here and am willing to help out with the daily burdens of
keeping a few servers on track). However, it seems that "living in
Silicon Valley" seems to be an indispensable prerequisite to be
considered as a helper for infrastructure@. Just being part of the
community doesn't seem to be enough.

So, yes, you are "stuck with running the infrastructure". Mainly because
(at least I feel like this) you (and I don't mean "you, Justin", but
"you, infrastructure") don't seem to want people help you.

Or tell those others here on community@, what we can do to be considered
as "junior infrastructure people" to relief your burdens.

	Regards
		Henning

-- 
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen          INTERMETA GmbH
hps@intermeta.de        +49 9131 50 654 0   http://www.intermeta.de/

Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services 
RHCE - Consultant - Jakarta Turbine Development  - hero for hire

"Fighting for one's political stand is an honourable action, but re-
 fusing to acknowledge that there might be weaknesses in one's
 position - in order to identify them so that they can be remedied -
 is a large enough problem with the Open Source movement that it
 deserves to be on this list of the top five problems." 
                       --Michelle Levesque, "Fundamental Issues with
                                    Open Source Software Development"



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