Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-community-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 35419 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 14:04:13 -0000 Received: from daedalus.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (208.185.179.12) by minotaur-2.apache.org with SMTP; 4 May 2004 14:04:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 86508 invoked by uid 500); 4 May 2004 14:03:56 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-community-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 86326 invoked by uid 500); 4 May 2004 14:03:55 -0000 Mailing-List: contact community-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Reply-To: community@apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list community@apache.org Received: (qmail 86232 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 14:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pulse.betaversion.org) (62.140.213.123) by daedalus.apache.org with SMTP; 4 May 2004 14:03:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 5742 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 14:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (stefano@127.0.0.1) by pulse.betaversion.org with SMTP; 4 May 2004 14:03:53 -0000 Message-ID: <4097A2D4.8050007@apache.org> Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:04:04 -0400 From: Stefano Mazzocchi Organization: Apache Software Foundation User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6b (Macintosh/20040428) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: community@apache.org Subject: Re: The Opposite of Incubator References: <200405042135.16990.niclas@hedhman.org> In-Reply-To: <200405042135.16990.niclas@hedhman.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020308090004010200030805" X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-Spam-Rating: minotaur-2.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --------------ms020308090004010200030805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Niclas Hedhman wrote: > Hi, > > At Avalon we have a small problem. > > Phoenix has ceased to be actively developed, and an external fork has occurred > driven by the previous Phoenix developers, called Loom at CodeHaus, and users > who needs help with Phoenix are directed to the Loom project. > > Now, what do we do with the Phoenix codebase in ASF?? > > GUMP makes this apparent. When changes are made in CVS in projects that > Phoenix depends on, we will receive Nags. These are of three types; > 1. Temporary and will disappear by themself. > 2. Incompatible change in other project, by mistake or un-awareness. > 3. Permanent Incompatible change. 1.0 -> 2.0 > > By upgrading Phoenix to these changes, seems fairly meaningless. > > Killing the Gump descriptor seems like the most logical thing to do, but that > would affect projects that depends on it (or other similar cases), James in > this case, I think. > > Should there be a notion of "Compost", "Graveyard" or "Retirement Home" for > projects that has outlived their community? There was a lot of discussion about this at the time of the incubator's birth. It was suggested that anything related to 'death' was a bad idea. JServ is, for example, in dead from a community point of view, yet many people use it in production. JServ is now located at archive.apache.org. If the avalon project feels like discontinuing phoenix, I think you just require a PMC vote and then require infrastructure to seal the CVS repository and put it in the archive. -- Stefano. --------------ms020308090004010200030805 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIII7TCC AtEwggI6oAMCAQICAwsi0jANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UE ChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNv bmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDMxMTEzMDE0OTU4WhcNMDQxMTEyMDE0OTU4 WjBEMR8wHQYDVQQDExZUaGF3dGUgRnJlZW1haWwgTWVtYmVyMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJz dGVmYW5vQGFwYWNoZS5vcmcwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC2CMYD GJqn0K4hpdDlpgbFlGxlFh2mp5EZyY3cu9nmp2wcl+vGn1Wcc103mshOV7BYHnBnR9CBNI5E /l/S/hKj0jgd0jH9/aKqmExZkLWsC7kCLANKPPDFl/sPGTHnpkQhvUbDjlUZa/h77oVFowBg IZjdJWadNzssPJ5wnGdfuYr+4ZI2xEWjH0tZY6V4TpILRg/jp3F6x/avqjNGBA1KOp6OzXdh 0RfvXEMEXDu6AZTD+flQxOjKp+IHtSO7suwkKg9ffx7Gh2LGKE24sBNE8SEPYHRtchutpQh9 YFW30HVgLgq9rM8lUx6JA7D4akj/A2Wc3tr+BBqpUkvgm3b/AgMBAAGjLzAtMB0GA1UdEQQW MBSBEnN0ZWZhbm9AYXBhY2hlLm9yZzAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GB AGfFFcM8lPwGLk1c5dHqMMbvR+i9MAWCNVoA2mHloOHW3Lv0peihvloRht8+lIK4+LpoygMQ beh+piuu/tcP+Z8W0Gee1pPiy0WfDbg5ZHfNvUswUSkoBP/nxL1yoHifBffxIm5IZNIxIj/l fStsMv5X8Tb/+KZY4T+iU/QU5t6UMIIC0TCCAjqgAwIBAgIDCyLSMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUA MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQu MSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTAeFw0wMzEx MTMwMTQ5NThaFw0wNDExMTIwMTQ5NThaMEQxHzAdBgNVBAMTFlRoYXd0ZSBGcmVlbWFpbCBN ZW1iZXIxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN0ZWZhbm9AYXBhY2hlLm9yZzCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBALYIxgMYmqfQriGl0OWmBsWUbGUWHaankRnJjdy72eanbByX 68afVZxzXTeayE5XsFgecGdH0IE0jkT+X9L+EqPSOB3SMf39oqqYTFmQtawLuQIsA0o88MWX +w8ZMeemRCG9RsOOVRlr+HvuhUWjAGAhmN0lZp03Oyw8nnCcZ1+5iv7hkjbERaMfS1ljpXhO kgtGD+OncXrH9q+qM0YEDUo6no7Nd2HRF+9cQwRcO7oBlMP5+VDE6Mqn4ge1I7uy7CQqD19/ HsaHYsYoTbiwE0TxIQ9gdG1yG62lCH1gVbfQdWAuCr2szyVTHokDsPhqSP8DZZze2v4EGqlS S+Cbdv8CAwEAAaMvMC0wHQYDVR0RBBYwFIESc3RlZmFub0BhcGFjaGUub3JnMAwGA1UdEwEB /wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAZ8UVwzyU/AYuTVzl0eowxu9H6L0wBYI1WgDaYeWg 4dbcu/Sl6KG+WhGG3z6Ugrj4umjKAxBt6H6mK67+1w/5nxbQZ57Wk+LLRZ8NuDlkd829SzBR KSgE/+fEvXKgeJ8F9/Eibkhk0jEiP+V9K2wy/lfxNv/4pljhP6JT9BTm3pQwggM/MIICqKAD AgECAgENMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVy biBDYXBlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xGjAYBgNVBAoTEVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5n MSgwJgYDVQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMSQwIgYDVQQDExtU aGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWHHBlcnNvbmFsLWZy ZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDMwNzE3MDAwMDAwWhcNMTMwNzE2MjM1OTU5WjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoG A1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAMSmPFVzVftOucqZWh5owHUEcJ3f6f+jHuy9zfVb8hp2vX8MOmHy v1HOAdTlUAow1wJjWiyJFXCO3cnwK4Vaqj9xVsuvPAsH5/EfkTYkKhPPK9Xzgnc9A74r/rsY Pge/QIACZNenprufZdHFKlSFD0gEf6e20TxhBEAeZBlyYLf7AgMBAAGjgZQwgZEwEgYDVR0T AQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADBDBgNVHR8EPDA6MDigNqA0hjJodHRwOi8vY3JsLnRoYXd0ZS5jb20v VGhhd3RlUGVyc29uYWxGcmVlbWFpbENBLmNybDALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwKQYDVR0RBCIwIKQe MBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDItMTM4MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAEiM0VCD 6gsuzA2jZqxnD3+vrL7CF6FDlpSdf0whuPg2H6otnzYvwPQcUCCTcDz9reFhYsPZOhl+hLGZ GwDFGguCdJ4lUJRix9sncVcljd2pnDmOjCBPZV+V2vf3h9bGCE6u9uo05RAaWzVNd+NWIXiC 3CEZNd4ksdMdRv9dX2VPMYIDOzCCAzcCAQEwaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMc VGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFs IEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECAwsi0jAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBpzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMx CwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNDA1MDQxNDA0MDRaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJ BDEWBBQ5GmrjS9RpBVXiCjTIIcpDz4TtajBSBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMH MA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIB KDB4BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxazBpMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29u c3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwg SXNzdWluZyBDQQIDCyLSMHoGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMWugaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMG A1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBl cnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECAwsi0jANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQALb/vB Rv4hyBh48KRXF30iNE2xtCDNlbd/z8+cgppSv85zNQqRUdqMFIBfea0BXlP9BsUOK7K4zJRX sfEF4DKNquOzq5G7OIm9KtAtQTBMXn5J5nO2+ROmb/BtAZBKDI070cfPCWmxVCNf0VSR7uRh bo0tnIOzCJacP2+BiK5LEjREltyfgAPlUPv9+JsrHoLxeaoM5Q1FarnF3PlL3C1oUz8eOxh9 fWIVWAAUpgiazWHYzyicLfpsEcbgCgzleVkgTBCfOf85i6DW1tzCTkx4hn40A0IYLhKAS6xk ZH3GVjJJ2AxRZeHxSUeo+EOakS8pORdwZPP+FUcIWyWn3LkBAAAAAAAA --------------ms020308090004010200030805--