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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:00:34 -0800
From: Aaron Bannert <aaron@clove.org>
To: pmc@incubator.apache.org
Cc: community@apache.org
Subject: Re: What is a member?
Message-ID: <20031124170034.GR575@clove.org>
References: <NBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPAEABFIAB.noel@devtech.com>
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Community Members,

If any of you are interested in participating in the incubation
process for new ASF projects, please join general@incubator.apache.org.


Leo,

Please NEVER cross-post from a PMC mailing list to any other mailing
list. Although this particular thread should have long ago moved
to the general@ list (and I'm just as guilty as anyone else for
that), cross-posting potentially sensitive posts that were intended
for PMC eyes only is very inappropriate.

Thank you,
-aaron


On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 09:47:57AM +0100, Leo Simons wrote:
> (moving to community@)
> 
> Hi gang!
> 
> In the message below, Jim basically says that either a lot
> of committers are not 'serious', or that he holds a minority
> opinion, or...there is some other reason why there are
> dozens of committers (even asf officers) who are not
> members. Eh?
> 
> I've seen messages like this float around on various
> mailing lists for months from various ASF elders, and it
> has all become quite confusing.
> 
> ---
> 
> What is an ASF member?
> 
> The legal answer is in the bylaws, but the practical answer
> which flows from that is not. What does a member do?
> What priviledges and responsibilities does a member have?
> 
> What characteristics make someone a candidate member
> (there's an election every now and then by the current
> members, IIUC)? What characteristics make someone 'fail'
> candidacy? What's the decision process?
> 
> What is discussed on members@, and why is it discussed
> there (as opposed to a forum with broader participation)?
> 
> ---
> 
> just some of many questions I believe many of the
> 'serious' committers-but-not-members all around apache
> have. Membership has always been 'shrouded in mystery'
> for many, which is, I guess, okay to a point (who am I to
> judge? :D), but not when it becomes difficult to make the
> right decisions as a 'member' of the/an ASF community
> or a PMC.
> 
> Thanks for any and all answers!
> 
> back to my corner,
> 
> - Leo
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
> 
> >On Nov 21, 2003, at 6:05 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> >
> >>FWIW - I went into this a little recently.
> >>
> >>I am not a member, but I am the chair of the XML PMC.  I was also 
> >>part of the XML PMC before I became chair.
> >>
> >>I specifically asked the question about whether non-members was OK 
> >>(in both a chair and a "part of" role) and was told it is absolutely 
> >>fine in both cases.
> >
> >Yes, it is OK. As Chair, though, you are an officer of
> >the foundation. So being an officer of a foundation of
> >which you aren't a member is kind of weird :)
> >
> >The main idea is that the ASF is *member* driven. The
> >"power and authority" really rests with the members. If
> >someone has enough interest to be a serious committer (and
> >they would not have been given commit privs if that
> >wasn't the case) I would want them to also be a member
> >of the organization that they are working "for", if
> >only for the legal considerations. 
> 
> 
> 
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