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From Henning Schmiedehausen <...@intermeta.de>
Subject Re: Information channels, Re: Inappropriate use of announce@
Date Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:43:13 GMT
On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 13:38, Erik Abele wrote:


> Well, the threads on this and other similar topics showed that the 
> majority
> of our community has a completely different point of view when it comes 
> to
> information reception.

Compared to whom? To you, me or Tetsuyo?

> To summarize it, we had a bunch of wide-ranging suggestions on how to
> publish the newsletter: emails on various lists with various amounts of
> content included, a dedicated list, a website version, fancy XML-based 
> docs
> and even an RSS-aggregated feed. Of course there were strong and 
> reasonable
> arguments for _and_ against each possibility but in the end everybody 
> has
> it's very own preference.

Personally, I agree with "the one who does the work get the call for the
format". If you need an aggregated RSS feed, feel free to talk with the
editor to convert his work into your format.

> In case of the announce(at)apache.org list we're speaking of at least 
> 8304
> subscribers (!). Considering the recent discussions, I'm really 
> wondering
> how many of them feel annoyed, disturbed or overwhelmed.

less than a percent for all three of them together is my guess. I have
some regional interest groups newsletters that send out more
announcements per week than the ASF in a month.

> I think what David and others (including me) wanted to suggest is to go 
> the
> way of least astonishment/frustration: we know that everybody has 
> his/her
> own preferences so why don't we just go with a pull-model instead of 
> pushing
> the *whole content* onto some list of subscribers? Why not just 
> *announce*

Any by trying to build "an ideal world for yourself", you basically
killed whatever enthusiasm or dedication Tetsuya showed. Because you
offered no support or at least positive feedback but only "we don't like
this format, this way of posting, this content, change it". I'd be
frustrated, too.


> > I liked the idea of a general "announce" list where all this stuff is
> > sent and let my mail client sort it out. This is the 21st century. If
> > you have bandwidth, disk space or download time concerns, you're either
> > not using the right technology or simply cannot keep up with the edge 
> > of
> > this fast moving technology.
> Why do we have to require this sort of working environment? It looks 
> like
> you're not aware of other parts of this world. Just as an exaggerated
> example: in the (developing) Asian and African countries, a 386er 
> equipped
> with a 14.4K modem costs a horrible amount of money and the 
> ISP-/TelCo-fees
> are definitely better invested in feeding your child(s)...

If you have to wonder about feeding your child (oh, the crocodile-teared
argument of the caring firstworlder. Cry me a river), you don't read
apache-announce. If you use a 14,4k modem, you don't subscribe to
linux-kernel. Unfair? Yes. Not compatible with the "one world, global
world" theory? Yes. Reality? Yes. End of story.

Else, everyone would have to agree on the "lowest common denominator"
and we would be back to square one, 7-bit ASCII. 16 MB memory. 640x480x8
bit displays. Sorry, I've outgrown this for some years.

> I fully agree and given that nobody critizied the newsletter itself, I 
> can
> not understand why Tetsuya resigned. That looks really weird to my 
> little
> brain...

I can. "Weil der Ton die Musik macht". (Sorry for you non-geman speakers
:-) )

> > H*ll, I get about 6000 mails per day. It's the job of a robot to make
> > sure that I won't get swamped in these but the most interesting / 
> > urgent
> > / personal get filed in the right folders. If you try to keep up with
> > 80ies methods (only send me small, non-html, right-marked, stamped and
> > adressed mail), you might want to consider using a fax. Or become a 
> > road
> > kill on the information highway. ;-)
> <ironic-mode>
> Hmmm, well, i like this approach. Can we please close-down all 
> apache.org
> mailing lists and instead have just one big uber-list, perhaps with a
> HTML-requirement and 10k footers explaining the ASF? Hey, it's pretty 
> easy
> to filter out the important messages, so why don't you just setup your 
> correctly???
> </ironic-mode>

Why ironic? This is reality. Personally, I don't understand the people
that have bazillions of mail addresses and read them all the time. I
have _one_ mail box, _one_ mail address and a filter which does all the
rest. I do channel all the mailing lists I'm subscribed to onto a single
address, so there is no need to talk about "irony". I works exactly as
you describe. I'd say such a meta-list wouldn't have much more traffic
than linux-kernel. (BTW: As a german you should at least write Über,
because you know the word roots and have the key for the umlaut. And as
a politically correct geman, you should despise the notions of using
this (it does stem from Übermensch and its related ideology (which
ironically comes from Nietsche ;-) )). 

If I don't like HTML, I drop the mail. If I'm interested in the content,
I either pipe it through a filter or use a html capable client.

If I don't want to see 10k signatures, I use a filter. 

Scoring based algorithms, black-/white lists, bayes filters,
preferences, kill-files,name it. This is how you filter information from
this stream-of-consciousness aka sewer river called "The Internet".


Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen          INTERMETA GmbH
hps@intermeta.de        +49 9131 50 654 0   http://www.intermeta.de/

Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services 
freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development  -- hero for hire

"Dominate!! Dominate!! Eat your young and aggregate! I have grotty silicon!" 
      -- AOL CD when played backwards  (User Friendly - 200-10-15)

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