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From Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>
Subject Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Date Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:50:34 GMT
Stephen Haberman escribió:
> On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 12:58:17AM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
>>>I'd do it when they'll donate Python itself ;-) Does wishful
>>>thinking work?
>>Believe me, I suggested that years ago. The Python Software
>>Foundation was started instead (Dick Hardt and I crafted the PSF
>>bylaws based on the ASF's bylaws). The main backers of a PSF
>>effort thought that the ASF was still too confusingly tied to the
>>Apache HTTP Server (despite my protests). I think if we asked
>>again, today, that the answer would be that Apache stands for much
>>more. But the PSF has got its own momentum now, so there wouldn't
>>be much benefit for them to fold up and merge the Python assets
>>into the ASF.
> I can understand that they think the general perception is that
> Apache == HTTPD. Perhaps measures are already in place to help
> educate people on the distinction, e.g. you think if Apache asked
> Python to merge with it again today, they would accept, but perhaps
> active marketting measures need to be taken to enhance/protect the
> Apache brand?
> Perhaps I'm getting too commercial or what not, but I've seen just
> 'Apache' in many places where they meant 'Apache HTTPD' so I can
> certainly understand the Python community's hestitation.
> E.g. the FreeBSD ports collection, the 'Powered by Apache 2.0' logo
> on my FreeBSD port-installed HTTPD server (is there a 2.0 version of
> the foundation?). Other things that come to mind are distro
> installers like RedHat, or even cygwin, let me install 'apache-xxx'.
> Even the Apache HTTPD FAQ, which I just checked to see how it
> handles the definitions, the first question, is:
> Q: "What is Apache?"
> A: "The Apache httpd server"
> The entire thing refers to "Apache" as synonymous for the HTTPD
> server project.
> And I'm sure this happens elsewhere on the net, as well. E.g.
> anytime a news site mentions it. Even slashdot had the other day
> 'Software Code Quality of Apache Analyzed', which was where some
> commercial code quality compared compared the HTTPD 2.0 code to some
> commercial web server.
> (The front page of the httpd.apache.org site also refers to itself
> as 'Apache HTTP Server', which is a little misleading, as there is
> another HTTP server, Tomcat, and you don't see it masquerading as
> the 'Apache HTTP Server' which it can claim, history of the HTTPD
> project asside, just as legitimately. Perhaps this opens up a can of
> political worms, but I think strictly branding HTTPD as HTTPD and
> not 'Apache' or even 'Apache HTTP Server' is a good idea.)

The reverse of this is that I don't often see Jakarta, Tomcat, Ant, 
Velocity, Xerces or Xalan referenced as Apache XXX. So, it looks like 
the people cannot stick two words together and still be a brand.

Side Note: It reminds me of the GNU/Linux stuff (or even GNU Emacs). It 
simply doesn't stick.

I usually say: I work in Jetspeed, an Apache Jakarta project. But even 
so, people loose track easily.

> What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> that would bring to the attention of people who get this wrong, e.g.
> news articles, older articles around the Apache/HTTPD site, the
> FreeBSD ports collection, the distro makers, etc., that they should
> infact use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
> It might be good preparation for the next X project that comes along
> but still things the general public/developer things Apache == HTTPD
> (because they do, IMHO, even if it's better than before) and so we
> lose the opportunity.
> In the spirit of 'submit a patch,' I'd volunteer to at least be a
> part of this watchdog group; I'm a little leery of the political
> side of what it would take to get it formed and the respect for
> people to listen to it. But if people think its a good idea and
> higher ups in ASF like it, I'm willing to tag along and help out.

I copy community (on political principles). If you want to raise 
awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't do it in a "java only" 
place like Jakarta.

> - Stephen
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Santiago Gala
High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com)

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