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From Greg Stein <gst...@lyra.org>
Subject Re: WORA Considered Evil ;-)
Date Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:04:54 GMT
On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 08:48:18AM +0200, David N. Welton wrote:
> It's also really easy to use as a command language, controlling
> various bits of other, larger, C systems.  You can embed, it, extend
> it, push it this way and that - even take the source and hack on it,
> because the implementation is free software.
> I think I like that world view more, even if sometimes the results
> aren't so elegant.  I think Lisp has a lot more going for it than
> Java, in some ways, but they really seem to suffer from the "don't
> pollute it" syndrome, down to the fact that a lot of them still harbor
> dreams of a LispOS.

I've got the same feelings about Python. I don't see Java as "glue" because
it portrays integration with non-Java as anathema. The amount of integration
(aka "glue") is *VERY* minimal. Look at Perl or Python (I'm not familiar
with Tcl, but will assume it has the same): integration with Expat, *DBM,
GD, curses, PCRE/regex-stuff, zlib, etc. Heck, even simple things like
querying the system for the name of a user and the groups the user belongs
to. All just part of Perl/Python/etc. But none of that is available to Java.
It's all reimplemented. Heck, I just discovered that somebody wrote a bzip2
implementation in Java rather than use an existing codebase.

Glue? Java? Nope. Java avoids integration with system facilities, so there
isn't a way to use it to glue together pieces. I'll use Python first, then
Perl if I want glue. Those two have always satisfied. I really can't see how
to use Java to glue, with its lack of integration and especially with its
startup time and memory footprint.

Bah. This has gone too far into language wars :-)

The one thing that I would state: when you're glueing stuff together... that
implies you want fast, quick, and dirty. It is usually a one-off. Thus, most
rules about programming go out the window. "Just get it done." And to do
that, you use the most comfortable language. If Java works for people, then
hoo-yah. More power to them. That's the way it should be. Use what works.


Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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