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From Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)
Date Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:06:14 GMT
I must stay that I find this entire exchange bewildering.

I have provided infrastrure support for Maven and an occasional patch 
here and there.  When asked about either Maven becoming a top level 
project or leaving the ASF entirely, I provided what I thought were 
helpful answers.

I welcomed Jason as a committer to Alexandria (where Gump was at the 
time, and Maven initially formed).  I supported his movement of Maven 
from Alexandria to Turbine.  And now I have indicated that I will 
abstain when the actual board vote is held on Maven becoming a top level 

- Sam Ruby

Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 11:02, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>Since I am the one who asked why Ant and Maven aren't related projects under
>>a PMC, you might was well yell at me for having the temerity to ask a rather
>>obvious question.  But for all of your railing this morning, you never
>>actually answered the question.
> To expand, I think ultimately all that matters is that a project be
> given the space it wants in an attempt to let it flourish. If the Maven
> developers want to be left entirely alone why is that a concern?
> If we compete head-on with Ant why is that a concern?
> If we compete head-on with Centipede and it's satellite of related
> projects what's the concern?
> If we don't want to use Gump or talk to any of the Centipede so what?
> Compete with us! You cannot force relationships between groups when the
> desire to do so does not emanate in mutual proportion from both parties.
> We don't want to grouped under the same PMC as Ant. How's that?
> We want to go alone and I think we've done a pretty decent job so far.
> If we falter and require, desire or ask for help later on than we can do
> so. If we desire to collaborate or merge with other projects than we can
> do so.
> Give each project its own space and let the network of interaction form
> of its own accord. If it is easy to shuffle PMCs and alliances then let
> it occur when there is reason too.
> All I and any of the Maven developers want to do is try to make it
> better. But from day one I have had nothing but pressure from Sam Ruby.
> Starting from him asking me to use a huge mess of an xslt transformed
> gob of XML as the model for Maven to using Gump as tool of coercion to
> force unnatural paths of evolutuion. I ignored the first request and I
> continue to ignore gump because anything not taking the project into
> primary consideration won't work.
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