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From Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>
Subject RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)
Date Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:54:09 GMT
On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 16:28, Costin Manolache wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> 

> Well, Maven doesn't seem to be that concerned with duplication, and values 
> the competition :-) To paraphrase Jason - what's wrong with multiple 
> competing repositories ? A smart tool should be able to support multiple
> policies - or choose to restrict the users to a particular set.
> 
> To take one example - the jar naming - I understand very well that Maven 
> people decided on this thing. And I understand that a lot of people 
> consider this a good decision - and a lot of other people don't. If this 
> becomes an apache-wide policy, I strongly disagree that Maven can decide 
> for apache policies. 

If you want to make an Apache only repository, I don't mind at all. I
believe you're wasting your time but I'm not going to spend any time
trying to convince anyone. As long as I can put Apache JARs in the
Ibiblio repository by moving them myself, or rsyncing them from here
doesn't much matter. But in very short order I doubt anyone is going to
waste any time making another repository once we get the admin tool and
artifact moderation mechanism working. Once we get our resolution sorted
out, maven.apache.org setup and 1.0 release I believe there will be
something of a landslide and mass migration to Maven. I would predict
that what happens here in isolation at Apache will be eclipsed by the
desire of the general Maven user base.

> In other words - as long as maven decisions affect only maven - I don't 
> care. But if it affects other projects, and the repository certainly does 
> - then the PMCs of those projects or the apache community are the ones 
> that decide.

I have zero desire to oversee a repository here. I'm focusing on
Ibiblio. Dion may want to lend a hand but I'm working on the tools that
will allow any Java project anywhere to participate in the structuring
of a repository that all Java projects can use, not just one's at
Apache. I have no desire to argue or sway anyone here.

> 
> > > Licensing policy is quite tricky and lots of things need to be done
> > > before the ASF should even consider setting up a centralized easily
> > > user-accessible distribution [of third party jars]
> > 
> > But that's the whole point, Leo.  :-)  Given the confusion and effort
> > related to the approved use of third party jars, I see that as a primary
> > benefit of the repository, not even a secondary one.  Especially from the
> > standpoint of the Board (and projects) being able to verify that all third
> > party jars have clean license.  I'm not sure if you have any idea of how
> > many hours and hours Dion has invested in going through the Maven
> > repository, and its licensing.
> 
> +1 - with the same mention that multiple repositories should be supported
> by the tools, and apache should contain only apache software and what 
> is fully redistributable ( and aproved by the board ).

I'm +1 as long as there is no rub pushing the whole lot to ibiblio.

> 
> > By using the repository as the authoritative statement of what is
> > acceptable, projects have both a known authority and a known procedure for
> > securing approval to use another jar.  This provides further protection to
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> > And those would be the guiding principles used by the repository oversight
> > committee to approve new contents.  By centralizing it, if there are any
> 
> +1 on the oversight committee for non-apache jars. 
> A strong -1 on oversight for apache jars. We already have PMCs for each 
> project, and those should oversee the distribution of their own files.
> 
> Costin
> 
> 
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-- 
jvz.

Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society


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