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From Joshua Slive <jos...@slive.ca>
Subject Re: Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)
Date Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:26:43 GMT

Ben Hyde said:
> Didn't we settle this most contentious issue some time ago with a few
> megabytes of text and a long complex vote coupled with a solid turn
> out?  If so it's painful and cruel to reopen the issue.  - ben

I've already apologized twice for rehashing an old issue, but that is
obviously a penalty a list must pay if it has no archives.

>From what I've been able to glean from people's selective memory and mail
quotes, the lack of archives is simply an oversight.  What that tells me
is that there was never an intention to discuss anything private on this
list.  Rather, the purpose of closing this list seems to have been
intended to keep out unwanted opinion.  I still find this repugnant.

I will reiterate my arguments, then I'll go away for to save you all the
pain of my opinions:

1. The list is, at minimum, terribly misnamed.  The Apache community
consists of more than just committers.  What about the thousands of people
who have made substantial contributions to Apache by submitting important
patches, filing detailed bug reports, answering questions on users lists,
etc?  You can guarantee that many of these people have contributed more to
Apache than many committers.

2. Excluding outside opinions hurts us all.  It limits our perspective, it
inhibits the recruitment of new participants, and it makes us seem like a
bunch of stuck-up "cool kids" who just want to keep to ourselves.

And no, allowing "invited guests" does not eliminate either problem.

I'm not sure this is the type of "community" that I want to participate
in.

Joshua.

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