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From Joshua Slive <jos...@slive.ca>
Subject Re: Fw: You can at least forward my comments to these secret discussions about wiki
Date Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:24:28 GMT

[This actually belongs to the "Open Community" thread on community@... Oh

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> Though - and on a different topic - there is one thing nagging me here;
> and that is this concept that the 'public' has a 'right' to be involved in
> discussions within a community; without being yet part of that community.
> Just because our software is free (as in free beer) does not mean that the
> process behind it needs to be free (as in speech) and open to all.

I'm not sure where to start on this.

1. How do you define our "community"?  As I said, I define it to include
everyone here: http://www.apache.org/foundation/roles.html.  It certainly
extends beyond those with commit priveleges.

2. Apache software is free as is speach and free as in beer.  I'm not
sure what your last paragraph is trying to say in that regard.

3. You are correct, that does not necessarily imply an open development
process.  But an open development process has always been an important
part of the Apache culture for as long as I've been here.  It is how we
attract new participants; it is how we stay connected to users; it is part
of the mission of keeping the Internet open.

4. Nobody is saying hold an Internet-wide vote for the board of directors.
Another important part of Apache culture is the meritocracy.  But that
does not conflict with openness, and, in fact, I think the two are very

And what does the open process hurt?  The only argument that I've seen so
far is signal-noise ratio.  This is always a problem on any mailing list,
and we've managed it very successfully on new-httpd/dev@httpd by having a
tightly focused scope and enforcing it.  (Yes, there have been some rare
exceptions, which I will not name; but overall the list is very open and
works very well.) I don't see why this would be any more difficult on


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