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From "Noel J. Bergman" <n...@devtech.com>
Subject RE: email notification done...sorta
Date Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:17:38 GMT
> http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20030108#when_is_community_not_a

And having still read over his web log, I'm really not sure why.

Seems to me that:

  - the wiki is a good thing, and is being used.
    otherwise, no one would have made suggestions
    or cared.

  - as indicated by "stop replying to me with just
    more requests, JustDoIt", he took each request
    personally, rather than as a general request,
    and didn't take into account whether the person
    making the request was appropriate to implement
    the change.  The fallacy of Open Source is "the
    source code is available, do it yourself."

  - he didn't get help from the relatively few
    Perl programmers in an "immediate" timeframe
    over the course of Xmas and New Year's.

  - he was criticized for a message that he made
    in jest, but which wasn't at all obvious in
    that intent.

"Just Do It" is a great ad slogan, but it doesn't seem to me to always be
the appropriate model for group projects.  Yes, it makes things happen.  But
when people are actively discussing an issue of communal interest, it makes
sense to me that the issue be discussed, various ways to doing something
examined, tradeoffs weighed, and then execute a change based upon some
concensus.  Otherwise, when more than one person cares about a subject,
"Just Do It" results in one person's vision being realized, and a cycle of
potentially conflicting changes necessary to stablize the code.  Am I
missing something?

I'm going to be curious to see how Subwiki works out -- if the intent is to
switch --- being in Python, not Perl, but still not in Java.  Are there more
Python coders than Perl here?

	--- Noel

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:mvdb@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 13:12
To: community@apache.org
Subject: RE: email notification done...sorta

Andy unsubscribed btw..

http://www.freeroller.net/page/acoliver/20030108#when_is_community_not_a

Mvgr,
Martin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe+apache@sunstarsys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 19:12
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject: Re: email notification done...sorta
>
>
> "Noel J. Bergman" <noel@devtech.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > I was going to reply that perhaps the choice of usemodwiki was a good
> > one as a turnkey thing, but perhaps not the best choice for the long
> > term due to the lack of competent Perl programmers willing to
> > contribute.  At the moment, Danny Angus and Rick Bowen are the two
> > who've stepped forward, and both of them have other primary
> > involvements, not to mention this being the first week that many
> > people are back from spending time with family.
>
> I was/am also planning to help, and I did look over the usemodwiki
> source to get acquainted with it.  However, I don't have any
> experience with wikis, nor with RSS, so I also need to bring myself
> up to speed on the technology-  according to *my own* (free)
> timetable.  Part of that learning process is simply watching
> how experienced people operate, and then trying to mimic their
> behavior.  Or not, as the case may be.
>
> > On the other hand, we've a lot more competent server-side Java
> > contributors.
>
> Right.  To my knowledge, there are only a dozen or so active
> committers that work on perl-related ASF projects.
>
> --
> Joe Schaefer


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