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From tobr...@transolutions.net (O'brien, Tim)
Subject CLARIFICATION: RE: Wiki - we've got a proposed solution - hierarchy
Date Sat, 01 Feb 2003 00:04:25 GMT
I hope no one thought that I meant that only PMC members can change Wiki
content.  My proposal still involves the public being able to change Wiki,
just centralizing the oversight.

--------
Tim O'Brien

> -----Original Message-----
> From: O'brien, Tim [mailto:tobrien@transolutions.net] 
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:01 PM
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject: Wiki - we've got a proposed solution - hierarchy
> 
> 
> -- related to community
> 
> Community@ archives are available on Eyebrowse, and for 
> someone not involved in those debates they record a several 
> pretty important discussions.  I won't mention any names, but 
> I think it is time to prove that this list is "more than a 
> big filibuster".  Maybe in the process we can bring some 
> people back to the community@ list through action not words.  
> Please come back.
> 
> Why would anyone ever think that a discussion of ASF policy 
> on Instant Messaging is something not to make visible?  
> Eyebrowse archives solve these problems -- I only hope that 
> lists not currently archived aren't keeping good discourse 
> secret.  ( ACTUALLY, now that I think about it, the Instant 
> Messaging policy discussion is an example of "highly ironic 
> secrecy" . Take a read, and think about that: 
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=community@
> apache.org&msg
> No=1104 )
> 
> -- a SOLUTION for WIKI
> 
> NOTE: I feel terrible about making this proposal, as I wasn't 
> involved in setting Wiki up, and if the proposal is accepted, 
> it will mean real work for "somebody else".  It might be 
> possible for me to soon rejoin infrastructure and volunteer 
> to lend a hand, but we'll see about that.
> 
> Oversight of content relating to a specific PMC should be the 
> repsonsibility of said PMC.  It is clear that PMCs like 
> Jakarta and James want a Wiki.  It is not clear that PMCs 
> like HTTP Server or Web Service have any Wiki content as of 
> yet.  ( DISCLAIMER: I don't speak for any PMCs, I am not a 
> member of any PMC.  I am observing the page HomePage. )  Say, 
> that PMCs are made responsible for policing content, this 
> would require someone from the HTTP PMC to become a 
> RecentChanges watcher EVEN THOUGH her PMC has zero content on 
> the ApacheWiki.
> 
> Therefore, I propose a hierarchy of Wikis.  Every Wiki has a 
> set of dedicated WikiAdmins who enforce strict definitions of 
> scope.  The ApacheWiki will remain with it's 3 official 
> WikiAdmins, and a separate instance of UseModWiki or SubWiki 
> will be installed for each PMC which opts to create a Wiki.  
> PMCs are accountable to the Board, and making PMCs 
> responsible for Wiki content will "close the accountability 
> loop".  This would also centralize oversight for each PMC, 
> (for example) an Avalon UseMod or SubWiki instance can be set 
> up, and individuals responsible for enforcing scope and 
> content regulations will be able to check a wiki specific
> RecentChanges page for only Avalon.   This would also allow for an
> opportunity to experiment with different Wiki technologies - 
> much like different PMCs have different websites.  Allowing 
> for heterogenous technologies, will also make it easier for 
> PMCs to experiment with different patches to UseMod, SubWiki, 
> PhpWiki, Twiki, etc.. 
> 
> A PMC can choose not to have a Wiki.  In this case, if an 
> individual attempts to post content related to that PMC, it 
> will be the responsibility of the ApacheWiki admins to remove 
> the content and inform the PMC in question.  
> 
> --------
> Tim O'Brien 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:dirkx@webweaving.org]
> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 4:28 PM
> > To: community@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Wiki - we have a problem :)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Costin Manolache wrote:
> > 
> > > Are we now going to have similar "oversight" over the 
> mailing lists
> > > and archives ? If someone posts a pointer to warez or porn 
> > on one of
> > > the lists
> > > - are we going to have to remove it from archives ?
> > 
> > We have, in my opinion, sufficient oversight on the mailing
> > list already:
> > 
> > ->	Mailing list are clearly assigned to specific commiter groups
> > 	or pmcs; who is responsible is clear.
> > 
> > ->	Most, if not all, of the committers and PMC members are
> > 	subscribed to the mailing list and are clearly reading
> > 	their mail.
> > 
> > ->	We have moderation in place, and developer lists generally have
> > 	clear and well defined scopes which are visibly policed.
> > 
> > ->	We see active policing of totally off topic data.
> > 
> > This is quite in contrast to the -current- wiki site; where
> > we lack clear mapping of sections to PMC's or commiter 
> > groups, where we have yet no clear indication that any and 
> > all changes are actively followed by the majority of the 
> > committers in that section and no clear scoping.
> > 
> > Dw
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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> 



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