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From Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>
Subject Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org
Date Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:12:34 GMT
To me it seems we are trying to solve two problems here:

1) A place to put homepages and personal content, including
    (but not limited to) ASF-related activities and project proposals,
    as well as individual interests.

2) A catalog of the people representing the ASF "community".


IMO the only time #1 should be hosted on an apache.org
site is if for some reason the person can not find other space
to host the content. I am perfectly fine with #2, as we have
already been doing so with contributor pages for the various
projects (I happen to think this is more effective than a
simple list of all 600 or so committers.)

[more comments below]

On Monday, December 2, 2002, at 06:47  AM, Sam Ruby wrote:

> Aaron Bannert wrote:
>> That is a noble goal, and I support this goal, although I do not think
>> that an organized soapbox is the right way to do this. The short 
>> little
>> "here's the link to my homepage, oh and I work on this and that 
>> project"
>> pages are great. Anything other than that is off limits in my book.
>
> First, I don't recall Stefano proposing an organized soapbox.
>
> Aaron, can you take a moment and take a peek at 
> http://www.apache.org/~fielding/ and indicate specifically what you 
> think should be on and off limits?

This is an excellent example of what can go right if we host
people's personal homepages on apache.org. Do you believe
that every other page we host will turn out the same way?

> Overall, I would like to see this discussion move away from 
> http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/straw.htm arguments (which, to 
> be fair was in response to an argument which at best contained 
> http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/pl.htm, and quite possibly 
> could be categorized as 
> http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/attack.htm ).
>
> What I would like to see this discussion move towards is concrete and 
> specific proposals and objections.  And towards building consensus.
>
> For starters, we have http://incubator.apache.org/whoweare.html .  Now 
> let's entertain the notion of augmenting this allowing each committer 
> to specify (via a completely opt-in basis) with a single hypertext 
> link to the page of their choice.  As has been pointed out, this is 
> not materially different that what has been in place on 
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/members.html for quite some time.

I have no problem with this, as long as the individual pages are
hosted elsewhere than the apache.org namespace.

Note that I didn't say "hosted elsewhere than on the ASF 
infrastructure".
As long as the people who own the hardware and pay the bandwidth bills
don't mind*, I would have no problem with a vhost entry for, say
www.friendsofapache.com or www.peopleofapache.com or even
www.amiapacheornot.com (tongue-in-cheek :), as long as it
doesn't imply that it is officially ASF.

*I considered offering hosting space for ASF people who have no other
place to put their stuff, but I don't think I have sufficient bandwidth
or reliable-enough hardware...

Although, I believe per-project listings of contributors with offsite
links is more effective, I won't move to block a flat list of
every ASF-community member.

> If acceptable, then lets explore what guidelines we need to place (if 
> any) on the content of pages and how such guidelines are to be 
> enforced.  Should the guidelines be different for on-site and off-site 
> content?

As Justin pointed out, we get automatic oversight right now when someone
makes a change to a project website, including the contributor listings.
This works very well for code commits, so whatever we come up with 
should
probably have the same level of oversight.

> I personally would advocate very minimal guidelines, if any, but would 
> be willing to compromise if that would increase consensus.
>
> Is there anyone out there willing to contribute specific proposals 
> along these lines?

-aaron


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