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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org
Date Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:39:09 GMT
Ben Hyde wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 06:04 AM, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> 
>> Ben Hyde wrote:
>>
>>>> 'community.apache.org' web site.
>>>
>>> -1
>>
>>
>> Uh, thanks Ben. That helped a lot understanding the reasons behind 
>> your negative vote.
> 
> 
> My prior post regarding this enthusiasm follows...

Ok, cool. See my comments below.

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>>
>> It would be fun to have an Apache community aggregate of web logs, but
>> I have trouble seeing how it serves the foundation's mission.  Sorry to
>> be a wet blanket...
>>
>> I'm concerned that if we create people.apache.org we create another
>> inside/outsider boundary.  I've got a handful of other concerns about
>> this, but that's my primary one.

I hear your concerns but today there is no easy way to find out some 
context about the person that I'm talking to on this list.

My personal experience shows that promoting personal context helps 
creating more friendly communities.

The real-life events are a way to promote personal context, but these 
events will not scale with the amount of people the ASF currently has.

Thus a need to find a more decentralized solution.

>>
>> Some other ones...
>>
>> I'd rather not co-mingles the Apache brand with the personal web face
>> of individuals in various subparts of the community.
>>
>> Our mission.  Creating great software.  Puzzling out how to do that
>> productively in cooperative volunteer teams.  Releasing that widely
>> under a license that is both open.  Crafting an effective open license.
>> One that doesn't entrap folks.

This proposal is exactly about 'puzzling out how to do that productively 
in cooperative volunteer teams'.

The ASF is currently fragmented. Allow me to say "balkanized". I see 
this as a problem. I want to 'puzzle out' how to solve this problem and 
I think that giving more personal context will help out.

This is my personal experience. You might disagree. But try to remember 
if knowing apache group members in person helped the creation of the 
httpd community.

Sure I'd love to organize gettogethers every week, but we don't have the 
resources for that.

Having homepages for ASF-related stuff might not be as good as meeting 
people in real life, but it's much better than having just a dry name to 
confront to.

>> I have to do a lot of A supports B supports C supports D before I get
>> to the conclusion that D, building out a mess of committer web pages,
>> supports A, the mission of the foundation.

Hope the above explains my intentions.

Bringing people closer together is for sure part of the mission of the 
foundation.

>> I'm concerned that a few highly vocal members might generate the
>> impression that the foundation is taking positions that it's not.
>> Consider Sam's web log with where he's been poking at RSS - that's not
>> a ASF position.  Consider my web log with it's rants on the wealth
>> distribution - that's not an ASF position.

I *am* *NOT* proposing to turn apache web pages into weblogs. Weblogs 
are personal things, I totally and completely agree with you that 
weblogs should *NOT* be part of those homepages.

I just want to be able to associate a name with a person. some bio 
information, his interests around the ASF and whatever else the person 
wants me to know about his ASF involvement.

my proposal is *NOT*:

  - about weblogs
  - about moving all personal info inside the ASF web zone
  - about forcing people to do anything, but empowering those who want 
to have their personal info available in a coherent manner

>> The easiest way to avoid a star stage is not to build the stage.

Fair, but that is not my intention.

Hope my explaination change the picture somehow.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi                               <stefano@apache.org>
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