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From Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>
Subject Re: Turning Off Bb-fbsd2
Date Wed, 15 Feb 2017 00:20:23 GMT

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 11:46 am, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the explanation. Is there documentation anywhere about Apache infrastructure's
standards and requirements for external slaves?

There wasn’t one  but now there is ;)

https://reference.apache.org/committer/node-hosting 

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Gav…





> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Allen Wittenauer <aw@effectivemachines.com>
>> wrote:
>>> ...
>> 
>>>       The Mac OS X host was shut down literally a day after I sent out
>>> an email to common-dev@hadoop announcing I had full build and patch
>>> testing working.  I had spent quite a bit of time getting Apache Yetus
>>> ported over to work on Apache's OS X machine, then spent over a month on
>>> working out the Hadoop specifics, running build after build after build.
>>> Competing with the Apache Mesos jobs that also ran on that box. The reason
>>> I was told it was killed was: "no one was using it".  (Umm, what?  Clearly
>>> no one bothered looking at the build log.)
>>> 
>> 
>> This occurred before I started working as the Infrastructure Administrator
>> (last Fall). I don't know the full background, other than a PMC requested
>> that buildbot, then never used it. Yeah: maybe the build logs weren't
>> examined to see that other projects had hopped onto it.
>> 
>> I also believe we had to pay for that box, and it wasn't cheap.
>> 
>> Today, our preferred model for non-Ubuntu boxes is to have other people
>> own/run/manage those buildbots and hook them into our buildmaster. For
>> example, people on the Apache Subversion project have several such 'bots.
>> 
>> We are concentrating our in-house experience on the Ubuntu platform, from
>> both an operational and a cost angle. Four years ago, the Infra team had
>> many fewer projects to support. Today, we have hundreds of projects and
>> many thousands of committers to support. We've had to reallocate in order
>> to meet the incredible growth of the ASF.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, especially for yourself and some others, the "smoothing down
>> the edges" has been detrimental.
>> 
>>       In parallel, I started working on the Solaris box.... which was
>>> then promptly shutdown not too long after I had filed a jira to see if we
>>> could get the base CA certificates upgraded. (which was pretty much all I
>>> needed, after that I could have finished getting the Hadoop builds working
>>> on it as well).
>>> 
>> 
>> We're still shutting down Solaris. Only one guy has experience with it, and
>> he's also got a ton of other stuff to do.
>> 
>> Our hardware that runs Solaris is also *very* old. Worse: we could never
>> get a support contract for it. They wouldn't sell us one (messed up, but
>> there it is). We really need to get that box fully shut down, unracked, and
>> thrown out.
>> 
>>       These were huge blows to Apache Hadoop, as one of the common
>>> complaints amongst committers is the lack of resources to do cross platform
>>> testing. Given the ASF had that infrastructure in place, being in this
>>> position was kind of dumb of the project.  Now the machines are gone and as
>>> a result, the portability of the code is still very hit or miss and the ASF
>>> is worse for it.
>>> 
>> 
>> Apache Hadoop is worse for it. As Gavin has noted, just in the past year,
>> we've increased our build farm dramatically. I believe the ASF is better
>> for it. We also have a team better focused to support the growth of the ASF.
>> 
>> We can all agree that turning off services sucks for some projects and
>> people. But our growth has made demands upon the Foundation and its Infra
>> team that have forced our hand. We also have a funding model that just
>> doesn't support us hiring a team large enough to retain the disparate array
>> of services that we offered in the past.
>> 
>> 
>>>       Since that time, I've helped get the PowerPC build up and running,
>>> but that's been about it... and even then, I spend little-to-no time on the
>>> ASF-side of the build bits for those projects I'm interested simply because
>>> I have no idea if I'll be wasting my time because "whoops, we've changed
>>> direction again".
>> 
>> 
>> Again, we'll happily link any buildbot into our buildmaster, so you can
>> automate builds on your special bots. As you can see from above, we won't
>> be doing PowerPC. Just Ubuntu for all machines and services from now on.
>> This allows us (via Puppet) to easily reallocate, move, upgrade, and
>> maintain our services. Years ago, each machine was manually configured, and
>> when it went down, the Foundation suffered. Today, if a machine goes down,
>> we can spin it back up in an hour or two due to the consistency.
>> 
>> I do sympathize that our service reduction is painful. But I hope you can
>> understand where the Foundation (and its Infra team) is coming from. We
>> have vastly more projects to support today, meaning more uniformity is
>> required.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Greg Stein,
>> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
> 


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