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From "Gavin" <ga...@16degrees.com.au>
Subject RE: Welcome to the builds list!
Date Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:28:26 GMT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jukka Zitting [mailto:jukka.zitting@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 6:45 PM
> To: builds@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Welcome to the builds list!
> Hi,
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Gavin <gavin@16degrees.com.au> wrote:
> > Where are your commits, what have you done?
> Could we tone down the discussion a bit?

Sure, my paddy fit is over now.

> I'm not sure if you've followed, but Nigel has for a long while been
> at the cutting edge of developing and maintaining build services for
> Apache projects. Implying that he's not contributing is pretty absurd.

I meant not contributing to the things he's been asking to get done so that
Hudson is once again on a level playing field. Not that it ever wasn't on a
level playing field, but I just got the impression he felt/feels threatened
somehow by the arrival of another build service.

> Nigel's tool of choice is Hudson, yours is Buildbot. That's OK, the
> more choice the better.

Actually no, Buildbot was not my choice (but it is now). I agree more choice
is better, I also use Hudson and host it on my own server which another open
source project currently benefits from. Each has different features that
make them suitable for different jobs in different scenarios, there is some
overlap however.

> The problem that Nigel and others were bringing up is that by using a
> domain name like "ci.apache.org" and text like "chosen by the
> infrastructure team" (Buildbot entry on [1]) it seems like Buildbot is
> somehow being preferred over the other CI tools we have. What's the
> background to that?

It is not being preferred at all, hence my creating a neutral list and a
neutral landing page that lists all services, this is what people wanted I

The phrase "chosen by the infrastructure team" is valid however, I did not
choose Buildbot, this was done on the infrastructure list, I just happened
to be the one to pick the ball up and run with it and get it done. So it was
the choice of infrastructure as a whole that this become the build service
to use for their build farm. If Hudson needs more machines as more projects
come in and demand requires it, then Nigel is welcome to ask for more when
the time comes. In fact it is due to Yahoo! that we have the 4 machines we
do for build services currently for which we are obviously grateful.

If folks are not happy with that phrasing then I will of course remove it.

> You mention "other infrastructure members" preferring ci.a.o over
> buildbot.a.o. Where did that discussion take place?

Mainly on #asfinfra IRC channel. It is open to everyone and lots of things
happen on there. Small decisions like this are chatted about and get done,
and to defend straight away, don't ask that every little decision made on
IRC get posted to the list as that's a slippery slope to nothing getting

If folks are still not happy then I will request infra remove ci.apache.org
altogether and we'll use the machine name ceres.apache.org instead.

Now that we have made a mountain out of a molehill, let me know what else I
can do to alleviate any concerns. And one more time, this is not a


> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/builds.html
> BR,
> Jukka Zitting
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