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Message-ID: <490AEEF8.1010908@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:11:44 +0530
From: Samisa Abeysinghe <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com>
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To: general@ws.apache.org
CC: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
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Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Samisa,
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
> board and to our end users.
>
> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
> a TLP like focus.
>   
IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a 
rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would 
be to combine all those efforts together.

Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can 
be easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. 
However, you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be 
taken up. Even it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but 
not Axis2. Becase Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as 
it used to be, both in technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.

Thanks,
Samisa...

> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>     
>>> Eran,
>>>
>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>> then we can continue.
>>>
>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>
>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>> - Really bad web sites
>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>
>>>       
>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>> has.
>>
>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>
>> Samisa...
>>     
>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> Problems :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>> like
>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>
>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>> go
>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


-- 
Samisa Abeysinghe

http://people.apache.org/~samisa/


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