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From "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:49:02 GMT
related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.

-- dims

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> Samisa,
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
> board and to our end users.
>
> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
> a TLP like focus.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>
>>> Eran,
>>>
>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>> then we can continue.
>>>
>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>
>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>> - Really bad web sites
>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>
>>
>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>> has.
>>
>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>
>> Samisa...
>>>
>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Problems :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>> like
>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>
>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to
>>>> go
>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>



-- 
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com

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