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From Apache Wiki <>
Subject [Ws Wiki] Update of "Frontpage/Axis2/f2f 2/Scribe30" by EranChinthaka
Date Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:56:43 GMT
Dear Wiki user,

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The following page has been changed by EranChinthaka:

New page:
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	=-=	User mode for Chinthaka is now +i
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	=-=	Topic for #apache-axis is “Axis2 Face-To-Face in Sri Lanka”
	=-=	Topic for #apache-axis was set by GlenD on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:19:15 AM
	Chinthaka	Hi all
	Chinthaka	Dasarath is doing a ppt on data binding
	Chinthaka	Glen suggested to have our own data binding tool
	Chinthaka	as well
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	Deepal	dasarath is doing databinding presentation
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	Srinath	dasrath is prresenting encoding
	Srinath	pluggable data binding is the subject
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	Srinath	we discuss the xmlbeans and ajxb
	Srinath	jaxb
	Srinath	have look at the sample of skelteon and stubs'
	Srinath	decided it is ok to recode gen the stubs and skeltons if the service switches the
data binding tool
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	Chinthaka	meaning, data binding can be set per service basis
	Ajith	We are in the data binding discussion
	Chinthaka	Glen : OM has an interface to getObjectValue()
	Chinthaka	which returns for example java.awt.image
	Chinthaka	if node contains an image
	Chinthaka	Ajith : the timetable link in the wiki seems like not working for me :(
	{eng}bar4ka	hi, what time is it there ?
	Chinthaka	9.24 a.m.
	{eng}bar4ka	wow, here 0.24 am
	Deepal	hmm
	Ajith	Chinthak : hold on Will look
	{eng}bar4ka	Chinthaka, so are you Asian ?
	Deepal	BTW where r u ?
	Chinthaka	Srinath suggests to have a databinding layer on top of OM
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	Ajith	try this
	Chinthaka	ok, thankx
	Deepal	problem with xml bean and arrays
	Srinath	dasrath says it might be tricky yo implements encoding interface
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	Srinath	I thought it is easy .. but let us see
	Srinath	may be not that easy
	Srinath	should me have the inbuild databinding thing too
	{eng}bar4ka	show is apache2 compared to apache1 with respect to performance ?
	{eng}bar4ka	show = how
	Chinthaka	bar4ka, this is not a general discussion
	Chinthaka	we are scribing the stuff going in the on going axis 2 summit
	Chinthaka	so this may not be the good time to ask questions, sorry abt it :(
	Chinthaka	evaluating to which extent we need our own data binding tool
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	Chinthaka	compared to the option of using xml beans
	{eng}bar4ka	Chinthaka: ok, can i suggest ?
	Chinthaka	identified following as the problems of using XMLBeans
	Deepal	bar4ka : sure
	Chinthaka	1. if there is some thing wrong, we don;t have control over that
	Chinthaka	2. XML beans doesn;t support MTOM
	Ajith	for the axis 2 perf results
	Ajith	have a look at this
	Chinthaka	Dims : Do you want to add some more ?
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	{eng}bar4ka	I think the new axis 2 role as basic infraestructure provider has little to do
with databinding, i guess another sub-project can do this
	-->|	dasarath (~Miranda@ has joined #apache-axis
	{eng}bar4ka	and it will be great if it provides easy support for other major databinding
tools too
	{eng}bar4ka	What do you think Chinthaka ?
	Chinthaka	yeah, I agree
	Chinthaka	we will definitely provide and now also allowed to have support for other data
binding tools
	Chinthaka	well, as u said its a good idea to have a small sub project to give axis 2 its
own data binding tool
	Chinthaka	so bar4ka why don't you step forward and help us by meeting that challenge :)
	{eng}bar4ka	what challenge do you refer, make axis 2 own data binding tool ?
	Chinthaka	yeah
	dasarath	any existing data-binding tools for axis c++
	{eng}bar4ka	i will need to much time to introduce myself better into axis 2
	{eng}bar4ka	to = too
	Chinthaka	summing up data binding discussion
	Chinthaka	1. support MTOM / XOP
	Chinthaka	2. pluggable data binding support
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	chathura	candidate:
	chathura	xml beans
	chathura	jaxb
	chathura	castor
	chathura	and our very own:)
	Chinthaka	3. SwA support
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	Chinthaka	4. wdsl2java and java2wsdl support for all
	chathura	ok MTOM presentation comming up
	Ajith	after tea :D
	Chinthaka	Ajith : +1
	chathura	current discussion....
	chathura	Sanjiva: there are 150 languages that compiles to JVM
	chathura	"Axis 2 should be engineered(if possible) so that it will be the SOAP stack for
all those languges
	dasarath	axis 2 will comprise of java handlers and non-java service implementation
	Lilantha	make handlers in java
	Lilantha	and call services written in nay languages
	Lilantha	EIS?
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	Lilantha	can we levarage connector architecture
	Lilantha	or JNI
	Lilantha	or JMS??
	dasarath	provider is responsible for calling the service implementation which may be implemented
in any language but how it does that is immaterial
	dasarath	if it is C/C++ then it is JNI
	Lilantha	yep
	Chinthaka	JNI is calling other C ++ impls
	Chinthaka	for example
	chathura	well thats no the exact isssue
	Lilantha	may be using connector architecture?
	Chinthaka	I wrote a provider which works with a jscript service
	Chinthaka	so basicallt the service is jscript
	chathura	issue is if we are providing support for other languages we should.t rethink our
databinding stuff and make it extensible for other languaes(other than java)
	Lilantha	seralize in a language neutral way
	chathura	yah but deserialisation isnt
	Chinthaka	TEA BREAK !!!!
	chathura	"MTOM after tea":)
	Lilantha	use CORBA concepts?
	{eng}bar4ka	while we drink tea, where are guys from ?
	{eng}bar4ka	i mean where are you from ?
	chathura	BAck to MTOM presentation
	sanjiva_	sri lanka :-)
	dasarath	where is thilina
	dasarath	?
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	Deepal	Chinthka is doing Axiom presenation
	Deepal	binary to inforset discussion
	Deepal	DFDL
	Deepal	currenty we have three kind of builders
	Deepal	StAXOMBuilder
	Deepal	StAXSOAPBuilder
	Deepal	StAXMTOMBuilder
	Deepal	glen : what dose StAXSOAPBuilde do
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	Lilantha	do u have the URL to ppt?
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	Srinath	Chinthaka is presenting OM
	Srinath	he had falshy slides
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	Deepal	we will give the link
	Srinath	the link
	Deepal	AXIOM presentation is under that
	Srinath	chinthaka is explaing the OM interfaces ..
	Srinath	he explaisn the builders
	Srinath	we talked about the fast WS and OM a bit
	Srinath	if we can write a pull parser out of binary stream we are same
	Srinath	if we do a new builder .. it might be bit tricky
	Srinath	but not impossible
	Deepal	rename SOAPHeader to SOAPHeader bolck
	Deepal	in OM
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	Deepal	hi jaya Venket is here
	Deepal	LLOM is better preforming
	Deepal	than table model
	Deepal	LLOM -linked list model
	Deepal	now talking Desgn poins slide
	chathura	glen: why do you wannna cache when you serialize
	Jaya	hey venkat
	Srinath	am in the middle of glen and dasrath arguing about OMElement.serialize(writer,cache);
	Deepal	do u want to talk to nvenkat
	Deepal	jaya : do u want to talk to nvenkat
	Srinath	trying to not cought in the middle ;)
	Srinath	it is getting intersting :D
	sanjiva_	pointer to Eran's presentation: (look for
the axiom preesntation)
	Srinath	we are getting to some where :)
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	Jaya	Deepal: check the personal chat window. I've sent you a message
	=-=	sanjiva_ is now known as sanjiva
	chathura	decession: We need a method in om Elelment.complete();
	Deepal	there going an interesting discussion
	Deepal	with cache on/off
	Deepal	big arguments :)
	ashutosh	what does omElement.complete() do?
	Srinath	it complete the element
	Srinath	mans completly build the element
	Srinath	means
	Deepal	if it is the root prase whole message and
	Deepal	builde SOAPEnevelop out of that
	ashutosh	presently is it done through detach method??
	Deepal	soory build
	ashutosh	that is if we do detach, it gets built completely if it wasn't
	Deepal	hmm yup
	chathura	yup remember the issue we had in the sample few days back
	ashutosh	yeah ... thats what i was thinking abt
	Jaya	was something done in addChildElement() of OMElement so that if a non-empty text node
already is present extra non-text child nodes don't get added???
	Jaya	i.e. something like <billamount ...> 120 <taxPercentage> 8 </taxPercentage>
</billamount> is not allowed
	chathura	another decession: In OM we should build upto the header as the handlers access
the envelop ... but leave alone the body part untouched
	Jaya	ok! not an issue if om is only worried about XML
	chathura	Rational: to see whether we have must understand in the headers
	ashutosh	chathura: but then what happens when security comes into picture?
	chathura	nothing happens
	Deepal	remove cache argumnet from element.serlize(straemWriter , cache)
	chathura	if the security handler wants to access the body let him go ahead and access
	ashutosh	okk
	ashutosh	anything decided on data binding integration with AXIOM?
	Jaya	You mean even if cache is off, we are going to build till headers for sure!?!
	Deepal	yup:
	Deepal	we have to do that
	Deepal	else how can we find mustunderstand and all
	chathura	hang on
	Jaya	okay
	chathura	deepal:cool
	GlenD	There are two flags for caching - one on serialize() and one on getPullParser().
	GlenD	Either we should leave them both there, and provide a convenience method serialize(XmlStreamWriter)
which defaults cache to false...
	GlenD	Or we remove the arguments from both and make it a builder-wide flag (builder.setCache(boolean))
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	dmwaters	{global notice} Hi all! In about 1.5 hours, I'm going to be rebooting the main US
hub for a kernel update. This willbe the last of the fixes for the boxes that had the buggy
kernel code. This reboot will also take down briefly. Maintainence should
only take about 10 minutes at the most. I apologize for the late notice.
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	Lilantha	bye all, good night...
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	Deepal	discsussing about MC serlilization
	Deepal	which is relly requird for RM
	Srinath	we explaisn MTOM now
	Ajith	Guys the summit material page is updated now
	Ajith	the MTOM presentation is also there
	Srinath	when the Transport Reciver recived a message from the transport we know that it is
	Srinath	do we have a MTOM builder to build the OM
	Srinath	glen said we need to seperate XOP and MTOM
	Srinath	have a two level arch
	Srinath	archi
	Srinath	the XOP things is pluggable
	Srinath	MTOM is XOP conntected to SOAP
	Srinath	agreed
	Srinath	comment accepted
	Srinath	OMblob tries differd building
	Srinath	we are in big discussion of making OM schema aware ...oops
	Srinath	;)
	Ajith	he he Here we are coming back to my "builder extensions"
	Ajith	:D
	Chinthaka	well I won again
	Chinthaka	:D
	Srinath	thanks god :)
	Deepal	no schema aware parsing
	Deepal	in MTOM base64 content represent as OMText
	Srinath	the OMtext has getText() and get data handler
	Deepal	the person who is going to use the axiom has to aware of that
	Srinath	ye
	Deepal	buffering is done in MTOM
	Deepal	serilization
	Deepal	so discsscusing drawback of that
	Srinath	give a Blob a CID
	Srinath	OM blobs knows how they will be written later
	Deepal	so no buffring
	Deepal	OMblob has to to its own serialization
	Deepal	has to do
	[INFO]	Now logging to <C:\Documents and Settings\Eran Chinthaka\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\nx1yvs5m.default\chatzilla\logs\\channels\#apache-axis.2005-03-30.log>.
	Deepal	talking little bit abt clinet side
	Deepal	client seide sender , how can we specify wt to use
	Deepal	in the client sid eand how client.xml look like
	Deepal	sid eand = side and
	Srinath	api has the presenance, then conf file, then classapth tricks ect
	Deepal	is HTTP Mime and SMTP mime are same
	Deepal	mean format
	Deepal	header formt and bondry
	Deepal	boundery
	GlenD	boundary
	chathura	:)
	Deepal	wrting OM aware java mail like implementation
	Deepal	?
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	Deepal	chinthka : do u have whole today chat log
	Chinthaka	yeah
	Chinthaka	but I'm not happy with the way my tool has formatted the chat log
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	Chinthaka	People are still having lunch here
	Srinath	people are donw with eating and back
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	Deepal	talking about axis module
	Deepal	mean maven module
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	Chinthaka	decided to base axis 2 on jdk 1.4
	sanjiva	Minimum Java config: JDK 1.4
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	Chinthaka	runtime will be on java 1.4
	Chinthaka	but for offline building java 1.5 is allowed
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	Chinthaka	package structure has bit of changes
	Chinthaka	the src will be removed
	Chinthaka	module/core/org
	Chinthaka	module/core/test
	Chinthaka	module/core/test-resources likewise
	Chinthaka	the ws-fx handlers will be in their own places
	Chinthaka	not under axis 2
	Chinthaka	so the followings will be handlers
	Chinthaka	sorry modules
	Chinthaka	1. core
	Chinthaka	2. OM
	Chinthaka	3. samples
	Chinthaka	4. WOM
	Chinthaka	5. server
	Chinthaka	well we reordered
	Chinthaka	1. OM
	Chinthaka	WOM
	Chinthaka	2. WOM
	Chinthaka	3. Core
	ashutosh	do we have module/core/org/apache/axis directly? shudn't a java in between, like
module/core/java/org/apache be better
	Chinthaka	Ashu : No
	Chinthaka	coz we have two java
	Chinthaka	axis/trunk/*java*/module/core/*java*
	Chinthaka	see
	Chinthaka	here people are re-arranging the structure
	ashutosh	ok but then we shud have src instead of java, as now u'll have different structure
for test and src directory
	guillaume_s	but we have *test* at the same level : axis/trunk/*java*/module/core/*test*/org/...
	Chinthaka	sorry
	Jaya	for setting up source path in eclipse it might be little annoying if you don't have
a top level folder for all the source
	guillaume_s	src/src ?
	ashutosh	exactly
	Chinthaka	I've mentioned wrong
	Chinthaka	its like module/core/src
	Chinthaka	module/core/test
	Chinthaka	sorry :(
	ashutosh	ok, this looks fine :)
	guillaume_s	this is not a *usual* maven structure ...
	Jaya	perfectly fine
	Chinthaka	Guilaume : Why ???
	Chinthaka	are we gonna shape our project according to Maven
	Chinthaka	its just a build tool
	Chinthaka	:(
	guillaume_s	almost all maven projects have a src folder with all sources inside (java sources,
test sources, resources, ...)
	Chinthaka	ohhhhhh
	guillaume_s	that can be confusing for developpers who are used to buil with maven
	Chinthaka	we just removed OM name from the package structure :( :( :(
	Chinthaka	its renamed to xml
	Jaya	but seperating test sources and code sources can help to set up IDEs with just the required
	Chinthaka	as it *will* contain some data binding stuff as well
	ashutosh	chinthaka, that looks good infact, why :( ??
	Jaya	OM renamed? me too :(
	Chinthaka	OM is a good name :(
	Chinthaka	Jaya, u with me ??
	Jaya	yup, we both with OM. But not to start a fight against the big wigs decision, though
	Ajith0213	:)
	Chinthaka	poor we :(
	ashutosh	anyways, what has been decided on data binding?
	Chinthaka	well but it has a meaning though
	=-=	Ajith0213 is now known as Ajith
	Chinthaka	we gonna have our own data binding as well
	ashutosh	no castor??
	Chinthaka	but we can plugin any data binding tool
	ashutosh	ok
	Chinthaka	Ashu : anything
	Jaya	Chintaka actually OM name in the initial when I tried to understand it was very confusing,
being frank. If one were to write documentation the same would clrearly reflect.
	Chinthaka	JAXB, Castor, JAXMe, XMLBEans, u name it, we have it
	chathurah__	:)
	Chinthaka	well, is the current documentation not enough ?
	dasarath	:)
	Jaya	The whole architecture we call OM at several places, the object model that is built
inside is also called OM
	Chinthaka	the whole archi is AXIOM
	Chinthaka	and what is build inside is OM
	dasarath	isn't the "trade-mark" of OM is AXIOM
	dasarath	I would like to see an axiom module in the axis build
	Jaya	But OM is understood as a short for AXIOM, hence the confusion
	dasarath	OM=object model
	dasarath	period
	dasarath	I guess our classnames create this confusion
	Jaya	yeah yeah. now that after getting deep there doesn't seem any confusion. But when I
started I had a lot confusion
	Chinthaka	thats how really good thing are
	Chinthaka	outside it seems really great
	Chinthaka	but inside .... :)
	Chinthaka	well this is the re-re-refined module structure
	dasarath	:) and OM is not any different
	Jaya	:)
	dasarath	but hopefully we will do some cleaning very soon
	Chinthaka	1. XML (OM + Data Binding impl + Data binding interfaces)
	Chinthaka	2. WOM
	Chinthaka	3. Core
	dasarath	-1 for xml
	Chinthaka	4. Server (Providers, Listeners)
	Chinthaka	5. Samples
	Chinthaka	6. Tool
	dasarath	xml is just one form of serialization
	Chinthaka	6. Tools
	Chinthaka	7. JCP
	Jaya	what happened to the transport stuff???
	dasarath	OM itself goes beyond the xml inforset
	Jaya	I think I'll have refactor my commonsHTTP effort once again then
	Chinthaka	they goes under core
	Chinthaka	Jaya, refactoring is nothing and usual thing :)
	Ajith	Jay - Only thing is the class locations change. not the packages
	Jaya	Yeah, trying to convince me of that fact
	ashutosh	what abt SOAP specific classes of OM? r they under xml too?
	Chinthaka	yeah
	Chinthaka	discussing that now
	Ajith	so probably you wont need to do naything except put the correct dependancies
	ashutosh	chinthaka, u wanted them to move outside?
	Jaya	Ajith: got it. earlier also I didn't do anything great
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	Chinthaka	Ashu : What do u mean ?
	ashutosh	u wanted om to take care of just xml infoset?
	Chinthaka	yeah, now too
	Chinthaka	and ppl have agreed for that
	Chinthaka	but its nice to have SOAP specific thing also ;)
	Chinthaka	so, bit of compramisation
	Deepal	new module structure
	Chinthaka	deepal, u r too smart
	Chinthaka	:)
	Deepal	:)
	ashutosh	looks good :)
	Chinthaka	but u have missed jcp
	Chinthaka	:)
	Ajith	Deepal: you missed JCP
	Deepal	i will update that
	Chinthaka	transport stuff
	Chinthaka	all the senders goto core
	Chinthaka	all the listeners goto server
	ashutosh	what will JCP have?? :-S
	Chinthaka	SAAJ stuff u guys gonna do ;)
	Deepal	i updated the image sorry for mistake
	ashutosh	deepal u would also like to correct the filename to modules.JPG
	Chinthaka	are we giving him hard time ;)
	ashutosh	:)
	Deepal	oh ok
	guillaume_s	jcp should contains saaj (1.2 and next version ?), jaxrpc(1.1 and 2.0) APIs +
axis impl
	Deepal	done
	Chinthaka	people now talk about the module interface
	Deepal	glen : engine is not stateless
	Deepal	srinath : it is not
	Chinthaka	Now we have a problem
	Chinthaka	whether Axis engine is stateless or not
	Deepal	what is Axisengine , wt it has
	Chinthaka	we have world war 4 here ;)
	dasarath	glen: "A Service has an associated cloud of state"
	Deepal	are we going to have mulitple axisengine
	dasarath	fox: Its actually a storm of state
	Deepal	per one transport
	Chinthaka	;)
	Deepal	(dims asking)
	dasarath	:D
	Chinthaka	Deepal : Are u a commentator of a cricket match ??
	chathurah__	:)
	ashutosh	c'mon hez doin a better job than Ranjit Fernando ;)
	Chinthaka	well anyone can do better than him man ;)
	Chinthaka	now people are drawing some pictures and ruchith is taking some pictures
	dasarath	both sanjiva and glen are drawing pictures
	chathurah__	:)
	dasarath	people are talking about persistance in axis
	dasarath	what are the contexts that we should have?
	dasarath	ws-context, message-context, transport-context, ...
	Chinthaka	sanjiva proposed another architecture
	Chinthaka	a slightly different one
	dasarath	should we or should we not have session scope in axis 2.0
	Deepal	big discussion about scope
	Deepal	Engine conttext
	Deepal	Service conttext
	Deepal	module conttext
	Deepal	transport conttext
	Deepal	and message context
	Chinthaka	one can see the Sanjiva's proposal here
	Chinthaka	sorry changed the name of the file
	Deepal	new architecture purosed by Sanjiva
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	GlenD	-- It is possible for various components (services, etc) to access the various scopes...
have to be careful about this. For instance, the AdminService is a service which affects the
Registry. We need to continue to support this sort of thing.
	GlenD	-- A "two level" registry seems like a good idea by default. There is the "persistent"
registry, which is the one that corresponds to the disk/database version of the configuration.
If you write to that one via APIs, you end up writing to persistent storage. Then there's
the "dynamic" registry which sits on top.
	GlenD	...the dynamic one lets you do things like deploy asynchronous callback endpoints (which
come and go) without messing up the on-disk version of your config.
	GlenD	-- We need to continue to support Axis 1's concept of scope chaining, where it should
be possible to ask for things from the MessageContext which are supplied by whatever context
level at which they are first encountered (i.e. setting SEND_XSI_TYPES at the engine level
makes that setting available to all services which haven't overridden that themselves)
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	Chinthaka	hey guys look at this
	Chinthaka	seems they have done some of our work
	Deepal	hi ashu, and jaya - venkat here. Do you guys have any questions for the topics so
far discussed here?
	ashutosh	hi venkat, we'll keep on shooting as and when we have questions
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	Deepal	dicussing about module
	Deepal	init() method
	Deepal	what we give as argument
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