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From "Will Glass-Husain" <wgl...@forio.com>
Subject Re: Velocity vs JSP vs FreeMarker
Date Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:56:20 GMT
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Actually, with the caching turned on serving Velocity pages is pretty fast. 
Many say faster than JSP, though I haven't personally run any benchmarks.  I 
agree though this isn't generally relevant in a typical webapp.

I'd note that another benefit of Velocity is that you can use it for any 
text processing (e.g. sending emails) while JSP is web only.

WILL


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Florin Vancea" <fvancea@maxiq.ro>
To: "Velocity Users List" <velocity-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity vs JSP vs FreeMarker


> And one more I did not see in the thread (or even elsewhere):
>
> The developer's cycle is incredibly short with Velocity (at least in my
> setup).
> I used to do JSP and with the best setup I could figure, any change in JSP
> source meant a server-side JSP recompile (good seconds lost in
> modify-compile-run-check cycle).
> With Velocity and auto-loading it's instant. And better yet, I can change
> directly the source files in the CVS'ed source tree, since I'm having a
> FileLoader hooked at development time in the loader chain.
> It's incredibly comfortable: just change and immediately see the result. 
> If
> it's good - commit directly to CVS.
>
> On production runtime speed: I was also concerned about the speed but I
> found out that there are so many other speed-eating issues in a full-blown
> webapp that the difference between rendering JSP and rendering Velocity
> simply does not count.
>
> Florin
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jian chen" <chenjian1227@gmail.com>
> To: "Velocity Users List" <velocity-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Velocity vs JSP vs FreeMarker
>
>
>> Hi, All,
>>
>> I have quite some experience with JSP and Velocity. To say it short, I
>> think Velocity is THE way to go. Reasons below:
>>
>> 1) Velocity syntax is very easy to recognize in any html template.
>> Other templating systems like FreeMarker, makes it really hard to see
>> what is the artificial html and what is the real one.
>>
>> 2) Speed-wise, who cares if JSP is some millisecond faster or not.
>> Given any reasonable machine, Velocity is good enough.
>>
>> 3) Velocity is WAY much simpler than the JSP mess. To be honest, I
>> don't like Sun's approach to make things unnecessarily complicated,
>> such as the JSP tag lib crap.
>>
>> To a java developer who never does Web development, Velocity is a lot
>> easier to pick up, while you need to read a lot in order to master the
>> JSP intricacies (again due to the fact Sun introduced lot of features
>> in JSP which only make developers clueless, JSF, JSTL, etc.)
>>
>> 4) Velocity engine itself also provides a very small footprint I think
>> compared to the full-blown JSP engine with all the "fancy" features
>> that might get used once in a blue moon.
>>
>> 5) There are much more benefits using Velocity than JSP which I don't
>> need to list here.
>>
>> Overall, Velocity is small, simple and efficient. That is what I like it
> best.
>>
>> Jian
>>
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2005 8:26 AM, Edmund Urbani <emu@liland.org> wrote:
>> > Ryan Lea wrote:
>> > > Just wondering if anyone has used/tried/investigated all 3 of these 
>> > > as
>> > > views (from MVC) and has any opinions on them??
>> > >
>> > > As a bit of a site note as well, has anyone used them with WebWork??
>> > >
>> > > cheers
>> > >
>> > > Ryan Lea
>> > > Web Developer
>> > >
>> >
>> > I have got experience with JSP and Velocity (never used FreeMarker or
> WebWork).
>> > I started with JSP a few years back, then I switched to Velocity and
>> > right now I am considering to go back to JSP for a new project.
>> >
>> > Both allow developers to stick to MVC and create nice, clean,
> maintainable pages.
>> > Both allow developers to mess around.
>> >
>> > Velocity does have a nice syntax for simple things like iterations, 
>> > ifs,
> sets
>> > and you can define macros, which can be very useful to let templates
> share
>> > things. You need no Java code to do this, it's all built-in. You can 
>> > not
>> > include Java Code in your templates (that may be considered both - a
> good and
>> > a bad thing). Velocity does unexpected things with null values, or
> rather it does
>> > not do anything with them besides writing to the log.
>> >
>> > In comparison JSPs are faster (once they have been compiled) and they
> will always
>> > be, because they do not rely on reflection/bean mechanisms. To me, the
> fact
>> > that JSP is compiled to Java classes is its biggest advantage over
> templating engines
>> > like Velocity, and the reason why I am considering switching back to 
>> > it.
>> > Compiling does inform you about many sorts of errors you can make EARLY
> (build-time
>> > vs run-time). Also, because JSPs do get translated to Java Code, I can
> use all kinds
>> > of Java development tools on them. Eg. I can take a look at the call
> hierarchie
>> > of one of my methods and see which JSPs use that method (that advantage
> can be
>> > eliminated by using <jsp:bean /> tags instead of simply calling
> get-methods).
>> >
>> > Well, now that I have said that much in favor of JSP, I can already 
>> > feel
> the wrath
>> > of the velocity community upon me - just kidding ;)
>> >
>> > I hope that someone will speak in favor of Velocity on this list 
>> > though!
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >   Edmund
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > For additional commands, e-mail: velocity-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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