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From <>
Subject RE: Separation of CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE
Date Mon, 03 Nov 2014 19:38:57 GMT
On the subject of "Newbie-friendly", I think Tomcat would be a whole lot more friendly if CATALINA_HOME
and CATALINA_BASE were always totally separate with a minimum of overlap.

Although I used Tomcat quite a lot years ago I still consider myself a Tomcat Newbie, mostly
because configuration always took days or weeks longer than is reasonable. Now I'm back to
Tomcat after years of having it easy using GlassFish. The files might be different now but
the grief with configuration is still the same. 

I've been through numerous configurations with various versions of Tomcat 7 and 8 the furthest
I've got is getting a database connection to work. Now having created a minimal CATALINA_BASE
I've jumped a few steps back and it won't start.

I am sure many of the problems would evaporate if only there were built in and permanent clarity
over the separation between CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE. 

Yes, I've read RUNNING.TXT and I'm left wondering why do I have a catalina class not found
if all the tomcat jar files are in CATALINA_HOME/lib

Using CATALINA_BASE:   "C:\tomcat8catalina_base"
Using CATALINA_HOME:   "C:\tomcat809"
Using CATALINA_TMPDIR: "C:\tomcat8catalina_base\temp"
Using JRE_HOME:        "C:\jdk1.7.0_55"
Using CLASSPATH:       "C:\tomcat809\bin\bootstrap.jar;C:\tomcat8catalina_base\bin\tomcat-juli.jar"
Listening for transport dt_shmem at address: tomcat_shared_memory_id
03-Nov-2014 17:45:50.410 SEVERE [main] org.apache.tomcat.util.digester.Digester.startElement
Begin event threw exception
 java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.catalina.startup.VersionLoggerListener

All these experiments are done running Tomcat under NetBeans so perhaps part of my issue is
with NetBeans. The CLASSPATH shown above is a bit on the short side, is it meant to be so
short ?


-----Original Message-----
From: Webb, Vince (TR Technology) 
Sent: 17 October 2014 10:17
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: Separation of CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE

I don’t see their separation as being incompatible with running from a default shell or
batch file.

It already figures out where to use for CATALINA_HOME, the default place for CATALINA_BASE
could be a standard difference from CATALINA_HOME, for example:

I imagine this could work OK directly from an extracted tar distribution as it does now. 

I don't know how much difficulty this would cause for IDE plugin's, they might end up needing
less code rather than more.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Eggers []
Sent: 16 October 2014 20:07
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Separation of CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE

Hash: SHA1


On 10/16/2014 11:52 AM, Konstantin Kolinko wrote:
> 2014-10-16 22:11 GMT+04:00  <>:
>> Hello I'm coming back to Tomcat after years using GlassFish. The 
>> little that I ever understood of Tomcat 3, 4 and 5 is now decidedly 
>> rusty so I've been reading Tomcat 7's RUNNING.txt with interest.
>> The section under the heading: Advanced Configuration - Multiple 
>> Tomcat Instances Looks interesting to me even though I have no desire 
>> to run multiple instances.
>> Configuring CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE to be separate 
>> directories looks to me like such a winning idea that I'm left 
>> wondering, why the default TOMCAT installation puts all that stuff in 
>> one directory ?
>> I have not looked to see if Tomcat 8 separates them.
> 1) The default distributive is friendly to newbies. If you just run 
> (startup.bat) it assumes that CATALINA_HOME == 
> CATALINA_BASE == its parent directory and starts successfully.
> If you separate "home" and "base" you have to pass them as environment 
> variables to the scripts. That requires a bit more of configuration 
> from the users.
> 2) On productive systems you usually configure CATALINA_BASE once 
> (your site) and install a new CATALINA_HOME with each point release.
> Even if some files such as "webapps" are not used in the home 
> directory in this configuration, it may be useful to have them for 
> reference.
> 3) Many 3rd parties (Linux vendors) redistribute Tomcat with separate 
> home and base directories.
> Best regards, Konstantin Kolinko

I think that the combined approach is useful in a number of scenarios.

1. Newbie-friendly

Just unzip (untar, install) and go. With the installer I suppose you could have it query where
CATALINA_BASE and CATALINA_HOME are to be placed, so the environment variables are constructed
and placed in setenv.(bat/sh).

If you use the archive rather than the installer, it's up to the user to figure this out.

2. IDE-friendly

NetBeans works well with the combined approach. It even uses the standard manager-script role
for deployment.

Eclipse is not quite as nice, but again using the combined version makes integrating Tomcat
with Eclipse as painless as it can be.

IntelliJ seems to fit in between NetBeans and Eclipse in terms of Tomcat integration friendliness,
and I don't know how it would be impacted by a default separation.

Most developers are not very comfortable with administrative tasks (as most administrators
are not very comfortable with developer tasks), so placing an additional barrier for developers
would not be welcomed by many.

3. Differing install scenarios

Finally, I can see a scenario somewhat like the following:

a. explode a standard Tomcat distribution b. add a single web application - one per Tomcat
c. package the result back up d. write a Chef cookbook for deploying this to 100s of machines

For a large environment with clustered applications, this may be the way to go. It's facilitated
(somewhat) by the combined approach.

. . . just some ramblings
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