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From Konstantin Preißer <>
Subject RE: [OT] RE: Cannot connect from outside using Tomcat 7/APR/SSL on AWS Windows system
Date Fri, 24 Jan 2014 15:43:27 GMT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard W. Smith, Jr. []
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 5:31 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Cannot connect from outside using Tomcat 7/APR/SSL
> on AWS Windows system
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Christopher Schultz <
>> wrote:
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > Howard,
> >
> > On 1/23/14, 9:05 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. wrote:
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > +1 chris, and for these reasons/features (and more), I LOVE WINDOWS
> > > (SERVER 2008)!!! :)
> >
> > It's firewall notwithstanding, Microsoft Windows is a really terrible
> > server OS. At least Powershell gave admins the capability to do things
> > without having to use a GUI for every damn thing, but there is just
> > too much BS in a Windows box for me to ever consider it for a server.
> >
> You are definitely entitled to your opinion and OS preference. Since
> majority of my experience has been Windows (and even though I love being
> a
> keyboard user and hate to operate a mouse), the GUI does not bother me,
> since I have learned to use keyboard shortcuts to help me operate Windows
> apps (or GUI, as you call it), been doing those keyboard shortcuts for
> almost 20 years now. :)

I can also be considered as being a "windows guy", as I worked with Windows as long as I can
think back. The current server versions of Windows (2008, 2012) appear very stable to me and
I normally also work with the GUI on a Server OS to set it up, so I don't have any problems
with it (for Windows Server, there is also a "Core" edition which doesn't have a Explorer
GUI etc. so you can only use PowerShell or other command lines, but I can't do anything useful
with it so I always install the full (GUI) variant). So, I would say that my impression is
that Windows Server 2012 is a great server OS (at least, if one doesn't count the licence
fees...)   ;-)

(But I think the first really reliable/secure Windows Server OS is Win Server 2008 (with IIS
7 being the first "sane" web server from Microsoft with ASP.Net support)- e.g. AFAIK Svr 2003
did not have network authentication support and SSL/TLS support for RDP (remote desktop) which
could lead to security problems if you remotely administer your server).

What I also like on a Windows Server OS is the availablility of the MS implementation of .Net
Framework and the IIS web server (I know there is Mono for Linux, but as it is not developed
form MS I don't know if it is as stable as the reference implementation for Windows).
My personal impression of C#/.Net is that it could be described as a "better Java", as I find
it to be more flexible and powerful for programming client and also server applications. For
example, the new Async programming model in .Net 4.5 makes it very easy to program scalable
async code (which is also possible in ASP.Net web applications, but there only the old asnyc
model is available so you have to do a few tricks), whereas in Java I find this quite complicated
and depends on the available API (e.g. NIO model in Servlet 3.1). E.g. also for WebSocket
applications in ASP.Net, you have more control over the WebSocket endpoint than with Java
Servlet. This is why I also consider switching from Java/Tomcat to C# and ASP.Net for programming
web applications in the future.

Of course, this doesn't mean that I dislike Linux/Unix OSes, as my KVM-virtualized Windows
Server 2012 runs on a Linux OS by an external hoster, using the VirtIO drivers from Fedora/Red

> > Add to that the fact that you have to pay insane license fees, though
> > you would also have to do that I suppose if you used SCO, AIX, etc.
> > Solaris, BSD, and Linux are all free and have entire ecosystems that
> > aren't dominated by the closed-source paradigm.
> >
> Actually, I have found Linux to be 'attractive', since it is 'free' and
> since there is less GUI and more command-line there. I had some exposure
> to
> Linux and Unix in the past, and I fell in love with UNIX just before I
> graduated from college, and it was at that point that I made that
> statement, I can see myself doing this (SPARC machine, Unix OS, and
> keyboard, programming etc...) for the next 5 to 10 years (as a career)...I
> was really in love with the keyboard (most of all, in the computer lab). :)
> Instead of downloading Linux and trying it out, on my own, I just decided
> to stay with Windows. it just works (for me). And I usually only need 1 or
> 2 client access licenses (CALs) per server, since I am the primary person
> that remotely access the server. The servers are primarily used as file
> servers, until recently, when I developed my first Java EE web application
> within the last 2 years, so now 1 of the 2 Windows servers are used only as
> a web (app) server.
> > I hope things have changed, but everyone I ever knew that ran Windows
> > Server OSs in production had scheduled rolling-reboots of their
> > servers because things just tended to "work" when they did that.
> > Otherwise, stuff would fail with some regularity (like every 3 days).
> > It's not clear to be whether restarting the OS or restarting the
> > application did the trick -- as we all know, most Tomcat problems are
> > actually webapp problems. In all my time working with Linux servers,
> > I've never had to resort to such foolishness, nor has anyone else I
> > have known. I've had servers running for over a year without a reboot.
> > (They usually get a reboot for certain software upgrades, so
> > years-running servers don't really exist... or shouldn't).

I have never experienced on a Windows Server OS that things stopped after a few days and you
had to reboot the server to fix them. Normally, these should be application errors so you
should only have to restart the faulty application to make it work again.
The only time when I reboot a Windows Server is after installing the Windows Security updates
(which happens regularly once a month).

> I have seen posts on this list about people experiencing issues with
> Windows updates and their tomcat/database not starting or shutting down
> successfully (or as expected)... i do not experience these all.
> Yes, I did send several emails to the tomee list, asking why did my
> tomee/tomcat server restart at night around 3am. I, then, learned it was
> the automatic Windows updates that I configured. So, after I learned that
> it was the automatic updates and that my app shutdown properly and
> restarted automatically (since I configured the tomcat/tomee service to
> start, automatically on/after boot), and no database corruption and no
> errors in the log. My Java EE app and tomcat/tomee shuts down and restarts
> gracefully inspite/through-it all.
> I'm definitely one happy tomcat user/camper. I have learned to also ignore
> the IP addresses from China, Vietnam, etc... that attempt to
> access/manipulate my tomcat/tomee server, since the result is usually HTTP
> 400 or HTTP 404. :)
> There are still some things that I would like to do and/or learn how to do
> with Tomcat; hoping to do so, when/as necessary.
> >
> > - -chris

Konstantin Preißer

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