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From Martin Gainty <mgai...@hotmail.com>
Subject RE: Memory limits for children processes when running Tomcat as service?
Date Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:44:17 GMT
When you run your MS app standalone how much heap, stack does this process occupy?
When TC startsup how much heap,stack is left over for the standalone Microsoft app?

If youre not going to powerup your machine with 8GB RAM and at least tera of storage your
only solution
is to configure your Microsoft Compound Documents be opened, read and written using POI
https://poi.apache.org/

Keep us apprised,
Martin
 
> From: j.tosovsky@email.cz
> To: users@tomcat.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Memory limits for children processes when running Tomcat as service?
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 21:24:03 +0200
> 
> On 2013-06-27 André Warnier wrote:
> > honyk wrote:
> > > On 2013-06-26 André Warnier wrote:
> > >> honyk wrote:
> > >>> Dear All,
> > >>>
> > >>> I have a JSF2.0 app that executes (via ProcessBuilder) an external
> > >> script.
> > >>> This script opens PPTX via PowerPoint ActiveX object, manipulate it
> > >> and
> > >>> save. It runs on Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit, 4GB RAM, JDK 7.
> > >>>
> > >>> When tomcat 7 is launched using startup.bat (with original
> > settings),
> > >> it
> > >>> works fine.
> > >>>
> > >>> When tomcat runs as a service, opening the PPTX in the PowerPoint
> > >> fails
> > >>> because of Out Of Memory error regardless Xmx settings
> > >> (tomcat7w.exe).
> > >>> I originally asked PowerPoint forum, but haven't get any
> > explanation
> > >> yet:
> > >>> http://answers.microsoft.com/thread/37cbebf6-4003-4ab0-9295-
> > >> 92413aaecc2e
> > >>> But as the entry point is Tomcat and the only difference between
> > >> problematic
> > >>> and non problematic behavior is the 'service' mode, maybe there is
> > >> something
> > >>> related in the tomcat7.exe code base. Just guessing.
> > >>>
> > >>> Has anybody an idea why both modes behave differently?
> > >>>
> > >> Hi.
> > >> The problem has nothing to do with Tomcat per se.
> > >> It is due to running a Microsoft Office program (or library modules
> > >> such as the "Interop"
> > >> series) as a sub-process of a Windows Service (and thus in the same
> > >> Service context) which
> > >> is something that is not in the design of Microsoft Office, not
> > >> supported by Microsoft,
> > >> and even actively discouraged by Microsoft.
> > >> See : http://support.microsoft.com/kb/257757
> > >>
> > >> The problem is basically that a Windows Service does not run in the
> > >> same "environment" as
> > >> a "user session" environment, and as they say in that article, you
> > will
> > >> certainly
> > >> experience "unstable behavior and/or deadlock" somewhere, and will
> > get
> > >> no help for it.
> > >
> > > I read this article but because I do not need intraction and my code
> > doesn't
> > > run simultaneously and tomcat is launched using my credentials - I
> > still
> > > thought it could be possible.
> > >
> > > Now realizing that tomcat launched using my credentials do not
> > necesarily
> > > mean that Office use the same...
> > >
> > >> Personal experience : some things will work with one MS-Office
> > program,
> > >> and totally fail
> > >> with another; even simple things like opening or saving a file.  It
> > may
> > >> work with one
> > >> file, and fail with another, for no apparent reason.
> > >> You get an OOM error in this case, but other cases may be "file not
> > >> found" (although it's
> > >> there) or whatever other bizarre failures.
> > >> Ultimately it is unpredictable, frustrating and time-consuming.
> > >
> > > I was an optimist when everything worked in the user mode...
> > >
> > >> Solutions :
> > >> 1) instead of MS-Office, use LibreOffice or OpenOffice.  Both can
> > run
> > >> in "headless" mode,
> > >> and provide an API to have them "do things with documents". And both
> > >> can open and
> > >> manipulate MS-Office documents.  Depending on what you do, there may
> > be
> > >> some differences
> > >> in the results, but it works fine for many things.
> > >> Or try one of the other solutions suggested in the above article.
> > >> (I have not tried them, I use OpenOffice/LibreOffice).
> > >
> > > I'll give it a try. I originaly tested Apache POI, but required
> > > functionality is not implemented yet.
> > >
> > >> 2) do not run Tomcat as a Service. Create a virtual Windows machine,
> > >> and run it in a user
> > >> console (with startup.bat). You can restrict access to the VM, and
> > >> since it is a VM, it
> > >> can run unattended, just as a service would.
> > >> (I am also using this scheme, when circumstances permit).
> > >> But in that case, also pay attention to the licensing considerations
> > at
> > >> the end of the
> > >> article.
> > >
> > > I am quite lost in this ;-) But I'll investigate further.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for your exhaustive analysis! Finally it looks my way is
> > no way
> > > :-)
> > >
> > 
> > No problem. I went myself through the exact same issues as you
> > described, I did believe
> > that there must be a workaround, tried a number of things with great
> > loss of time, and
> > finally had to admit that the MS article was right and that there is no
> > good solution with
> > MS-Office when starting it from a Service.
> 
> I appreciate a lot your response and sharing your experience. Without it I
> would spend many additional hours of investigating, trial and error
> attempts, asking the same topic in different places, all this in heavy
> frustration... 
> 
> > About the Virtual Machine solution : usually, when you want something
> > to run as a Service,
> > it is because it has to run in the background, without a user being
> > logged-in, because of
> > security e.g.  Also because otherwise, when the logged-in user logs
> > off, any program that
> > he's running get killed.
> > With Virtual Machines (VM in short), you can create a Windows machine
> > that has no real
> > physical console, runs all the time, and where a user session can stay
> > logged-in all the
> > time.  So in that kind of machine, it is not usually a problem if a
> > user is logged-in and
> > remains logged-in, with a console window open, and Tomcat running in
> > it.
> > And in that console window, your Tomcat could be running via
> > startup.bat, and execute your
> > MS-Office commands without problems, as it is not a Service.
> 
> If I understand it correctly, this would need a special care when the VM is
> restarted - the user should log-in again. In meantime this system is out of
> work. It is a rare case though.
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> 
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