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From André Warnier ...@ice-sa.com>
Subject Re: How to limit tomcats thread consumption?
Date Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:30:36 GMT
Michael Jerger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> a) are you sure ? Since, commercially speaking, I can't imagine what
>> benefit they would get from this (as opposed to e.g. limiting the amount
>> of RAM or disk space), I tend to have a doubt.
> 
> unfortunately I am ... and yes, I agree - this option is absolutely mindless 
> ...
> 
>> Also, I am not sure but it seems to me that if there is a maximum number of
>> processes built-in, that should be a configurable OS setting in Linux.
> 
> This option is set by the VM Hostingsystem - so I can't change this on os 
> level.
> 
>> b) thread != process.  See e.g.
>> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/intrepid/man7/pthreads.7.html
> 
> I know the difference - so to get my process count I use pstree. As I Know 
> pstree counts processes (parent and child) - right?
> 
>>> Thats quite a huge issue, because I want to operate two virtual hosts:
>>>
>>> apache-dev -- tomcat-dev -- mysql
>>> apache-www -- tomcat-prod -- mysql
>>>
>>> * mysql uses 50 threads in total
>>> * apache uses 5
>>> * tomcat_prod - 109
>>> * tomcat_dev - 73
>> c) again, are you not confusing threads and processes ?
>> For Apache httpd e.g., depending on the MPM model used, you will be using
>> either processes (pre-fork MPM) or threads, or both.
> 
> No  I use prefork - but I know the other mpm options to so I will switch to 
> threading as soon as I understand the tomcat behaviour.
> 
>> In a prefork MPM, that can indeed lead to up to 51 simultaneous *processes*
>> (aka 1 main Apache + 50 Apache "children"), IF you have as many
>> simultaneous requests being processed. I run many sites with Maxclients
>> 20, or less (specially for development sites).
> 
> Maxclinets is defined for two v-hosts - prod with 40 and dev with 3 so your 
> right, I can save 7 processes here :-)
> 

I am not sure, but you may have the wrong understanding of v-hosts. Are you talking about

Apache VirtualHosts, or (VMware) virtual machines here ?
What I mean is that the MaxClients setting for Apache httpd is global, and does not apply

to VirtualHosts separately.


> 
>>> * mod_jk connection_pool_size (3/40), socket_keepalive=false
>> There is not really any benefit to have more Apache-Tomcat connections,
>> than your MaxClients setting above.
> 
> (3/40) means 3 for dev and 40 for prod.
> 
>>> * server.xml:
>>>
>>> <Executor name="tomcatDevThreadPool" namePrefix="catalina-exec-"
>>>
>>>         daemon="false" maxThreads="(3/40)" maxSpareThreads="5"
>>>
>>> minSpareThreads="1"/>
>> Ideally, you need as many threads as there can be individual *tomcat*
>> requests in the course of being processed at the same time.  There is no
>> benefit in having (or starting) more than that.
>> Since presumably all requests pass first through Apache before there reach
>> Tomcat, you need as a maximum number of Tomcat threads, the same number ax
>> MaxClients in Apache.
> 
> Your right - I will decrease my maxclients for 7. But how can I limit the 
> number of tomcat-processes? 
> Even if I assume that a java thread is mapped to one os-process I don't 
> understand the 109 tomcat processes in a nearly idle tomcat with maxthreads 4 
> configured at his only connector!
> 

I have no idea how the following is going to show up in an email, but this is what I get 
when I enter "pstree" on one of my linux Debian production systems running Apache httpd 
and tomcat :

evm2:~# pstree
init─┬─acpid
      ├─apache2───25*[apache2]
      ├─avahi-daemon───avahi-daemon
      ├─cron
      ├─dbus-daemon
      ├─6*[getty]
      ├─2*[java───14*[{java}]]
      ├─jsvc─┬─jsvc
      │      └─jsvc───40*[{jsvc}]
      ├─klogd
      ├─nmbd
      ├─nullmailer-send
      ├─portmap
      ├─rpc.statd
      ├─smbd───3*[smbd]
      ├─sshd─┬─sshd───bash
      │      └─sshd───bash───pstree
      ├─syslogd
      ├─udevd
      └─vmware-guestd


According to the man page of pstree, child /processes/ are shown between (only) [square 
brackets], and child /threads/ are shown between [{square and curly brackets}].
On that system, tomcat is running under "jsvc" (see "Apache commons daemon" project), so 
what is shown above as "jsvc" processes are actually the Java JVM instances running tomcat.
A "ps -ef" command shows only 3 jsvc processes for tomcat, thus matching the 3 instances 
of jsvc above, but not the "40*[{jsvc}]" part, which I tend to think then are really 
threads, not processes.
Now, independently of the "Connector" threads, which process the HTTP/AJP requests, I know

that Tomcat (and the JVM) start a number of additional threads to handle various things. 
For example, there will be at least one JVM thread taking care of periodic garbage 
collection; and at least one (optional) Tomcat thread taking care of watching the webapps

directories for any changes; and each "event listener" probably has its own thread and so

on.  But they should not count as processes.

In the case above, the relevant part of the Tomcat (5.5) configuration is (I am not using

an Executor, just plain Connectors) :

     <Connector port="8180" maxHttpHeaderSize="8192"
                maxThreads="50" minSpareThreads="5" maxSpareThreads="25"
                enableLookups="false" redirectPort="8443" acceptCount="100"
                connectionTimeout="20000" disableUploadTimeout="true" />
			
     <Connector port="8009" protocol="AJP/1.3"
		connectionTimeout="2000" maxThreads="50" minSpareThreads="10" maxSpareThreads="25"
	/>

and Apache httpd settings are :

<IfModule mpm_prefork_module>
     StartServers          15
     MinSpareServers       15
     MaxSpareServers      25
     MaxClients          200
     MaxRequestsPerChild   0
</IfModule>

(So as you see, I am not even following my own principles ;-) ).
But even with the above settings on a running system, "top" shows only 100 processes :

Tasks: 100 total,   2 running,  98 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie

(And that includes quite a bit of cron jobs, samba and vmware daemons, denyhosts and a 
bunch of similar things.  And I have no problems starting scripts or making connections to

the system).

Are you sure that the problems you have in starting scripts/connecting to the system are 
really due to that process limit ?
What for instance does the command "netstat -an --tcp" show ?


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