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From André Warnier>
Subject Re: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstr,ap
Date Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:12:21 GMT
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>> From: André Warnier []
>> Subject: Re: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:
>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstr,ap
>> Not everyone who drives a car is, or wants to be, a mechanic. It only
>> very seldom helps.
> True; but if you're at the point where you're installing Tomcat, I think some prerequisite
knowledge is expected.  It's not just cranking up Word to create the family newsletter.
True too.  But there are a lot of people who just want to do very smart 
things *under* Tomcat, without necessarily wanting to spend a lot of 
time dealing with installing it, or configuring its log files (could not 
stop myself adding that one).

>> So one could then say that the zip and tarball versions are totally
>> identical, just packed with a different utility ?
> As far as I can tell, yes.

>> There was a time when a "pure java" program did not work very
>> well as a Windows Service. Such as, if started from a command
>> window, it would be killed whenever the user who originally
>> started it, logged out of his Windows session.
> ??? If it's running from a command window, it's not a service.
No, I really meant that even if you would start it *as a service* from a 
command window (like "net start servicename"), it would still kill that 
service when you logged off.  Really.  Do not ask me what the exact 
reason was, but it did that.

>> It was my understanding that this was at least one reason why the
>> Commons Daemon wrapper (procrun) was developed, to "wrap" the JVM in
>> such a way that it did not do that.
> Yes, procrun greatly simplifies turning the JVM into a service, but I doubt that it's
  the only way.
The basic reason is that Windows expects to be able to send "messages" 
to Windows services, such as "please suspend", or "stop now", and that 
these messages are supposed to be looked at by the program in question, 
and it is supposed to react to them and tell Windows "ok, seen it, done 
that", within a given period of time.  That's the kind of thing that 
procrun does (I think), and that maybe the JVM by itself doesn't.
Or maybe now it does, I don't know, and that's why I asked.

Maybe someone else can confirm/deny that ?

>> a) the zip/tarball version also include whatever is needed to wrap the
>> JVM and Tomcat into the Windows Service wrapper ?
> Yup, even the tarball includes the Windows scripts and .exe programs.
   Use the service.bat script to install or remove the service.
>> b) the JVM nowadays handles this fine on its own, and does
>> not need the wrapper anymore ?
> It's not a problem with the JVM, but with how Windows likes to kick off services.
Well, that is one slightly biased point of view. Unix/Linux do things 
one way to run daemons, Windows does it another way and calls them 
services.  If the JVM, which pretends to be multi-platform (including 
Windows) cannot handle that, then it loses an argument on being really 
multi-platform, doesn't it ?
Not that I'm a fan of Windows myself, but fair is fair.

Anyway, to wrap this up, how do we get the official Tomcat "download" 
and "setup" pages to say all this more clearly than they do at present ? 
Just for the sake of avoiding those recurring questions.
Like :
"Tomcat is a Java application, so it is multi-platform by definition, 
and you can run the exact same version under Unix/Linux or Windows.  The 
default (or "main" or "official") version is the one you get in the zip 
or the tar.gz distribution, and they both contain the same files. Any 
one of them can be used to install and run Tomcat under Unix/Linux or 
under Windows.  Only, the contained ".bat" scripts are the ones to use 
under Windows, and the ".sh" scripts are to be used under Unix/Linux.

There is also a special Windows-only pre-packaged version, named 
"Windows service installer", which contains slightly less files, but 
makes it easier for you if all you want is run Tomcat as a Windows 
service and be done with it.  It has a GUI installer like Windows users 
are used to, and automatically installs Tomcat as a service for you, 
with all the required parameters already pre-defined so as to make it 
really easy.  It also has a GUI program to change the service startup 
parameters should you need to.
But if you want to run Tomcat also in a command window, or want to play 
around with the startup scripts etc.., then download and use the zip 
version instead.  It will also allow you to run Tomcat as a Windows 
service, but the setup for that requires a little more work."

We need a third OS contender one of these days, or it is going to get 
really boring. In Europe we know all about that, none of this R. vs D. 
-only kind of stuff. It's a lot more fun with some far-left, far-right, 
greens, liberals and nationalists to keep things interesting.
Just imagine R/D hung 45/45, and Ms Hilton with 10 in the middle holding 
the balance..

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