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From "Frank W. Zammetti" <>
Subject Re: Struts vs JSF (poll?)
Date Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:53:56 GMT
On Tue, August 26, 2008 12:33 pm, Christopher Schultz wrote:
> With respect to Frank's comments, S2 specifically encourages you to
> separate your own code from the framework, so that you can even
> implement your logic as framework-agnostic controllers that are simply
> auto-filled by the framework. Unit testing couldn't be easier: you don't
> even need to worry about the servlet API because S2 completely hides it
> from you (even for things like session attributes).

I think that *can* be true... but my observation is that most developers
start getting so many marker interfaces and interceptors into the mix, and
some start to tie you to the servlet API, that all of a sudden you're in
the same "mock" boat as you are otherwise... I've always thought the S2
claim that Actions are POJOs, while *technically* true (or at least, *can*
be technically true) is a little bit of a red herring.

However, I'll be fair and admit I haven't done a full-scale S2 project in
a real-world environment, so this conclusion is based on a somewhat
limited data set.  I don't think the situation is any worse than any other
framework though.

> I would encourage you guys to take a deeper look into these frameworks
> (I know nothing about JSF... I'm sure there's some great stuff in there,
> too)... I think you'll see that frameworks do actually provide useful
> services and direction, and aren't just useless plumbing and
> configuration.

I'm very familiar with S1, I've been using it for years and have released
a number of extensions to it over that period.  I'm also pretty familiar
with S2 (I did tech review on Ian's "Practical" book and have put one or
two plugins out there in the wild).  I just find S1 doesn't buy me much
any more, and in fact gets in the way sometimes for the type of
development I do, and I find S2 to be overly complicated in many

It's just one man's opinion of course, and I too encourage each person to
examine these frameworks on their individual merits and make up your own
mind for your specific situation.  I'm certainly not going to slam anyone
that looks at Struts or JSF and concludes it's right for them... well,
maybe I would in the case of JSF :)

> - -chris


Frank W. Zammetti
Author of "Practical Dojo Projects"
  abd "Practical DWR 2 Projects"
  and "Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
  and "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
  (For info:
My "look ma, I have a blog too!" blog:

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