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From Adam Hardy <>
Subject Re: Apache/Tomcat/Struts Certification Proposal
Date Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:33:35 GMT
If you don't mind me asking, compared to the 16 hours for SCJ2P, how is 
it going with SCJ2D ? I assume SCJ2D is the next one up from SCJ2P?

On 02/20/2004 08:03 PM Hans Wichman wrote:
> Hi,
> I guess it's a matter of which way you look at it. Starting from scratch 
> and getting certified doesn't really say much (because then you are as 
> Yoav said, the unexperienced certified developer). However if you have 
> reached a certain level of experience, I don't see what's wrong with 
> getting certified in that area as well.
> For example, the SCJ2P took me about 16 hours of study and I scored 93%. 
> That's not because I am so damn good ;-) because I'm not, but because I 
> had a few years experience in the field. So the certification results 
> only acknowleged what I already knew.
> On the other hand, I am currently working on SCJ2D, and I wish I had 
> never started it (well, I am almost done so that's not entirely true 
> ;-)), but I do know that when I finish it, it doesn't say jacksh.t (so 
> Yoav is totally right in that case).
> Anywayz, to shorten a long story: maybe the certification itself doesn't 
> say that much, unless you know the time it took and the grades received 
> ;-). Still I think it doesn't hurt to get certified either.
> grtz
> Sorv
> At 01:50 PM 2/20/2004 -0500, Hamilton Andrew wrote:
>> I tend to agree with the certifications are BS argument.  I have several
>> certifications and they don't really help me do my job.  
>> Unfortunately, in
>> the climate we are in these days, the fact that there are certifications
>> lead us down the road to being forced into acquiring them.  When faced 
>> with
>> the likelihood that the hiring authority in a company may not be an
>> engineer, but a human resource manager and the requirements for the 
>> position
>> are certification in this, that or the other technology, even though I 
>> may
>> have 5 more years worth of experience, my resume my get tossed aside 
>> because
>> I don't have the piece of paper that tells them that someone else 
>> thinks I
>> know what I'm doing, which may sound ridiculous but is still true.  It is
>> disheartening to see because I switch jobs every three years and more and
>> more I see that someone wants you to be an SCJP, SCJD, CCIE, CCNA, MCSE,
>> MCSD, or what have you (does this remind anyone of alphabet soup).  I 
>> think
>> there are ways for you to showcase your skills in your resume without 
>> having
>> to resort to getting certifications but it just seems to me that 
>> sooner or
>> later there is going to be some form of certification REQUIRED for a 
>> lot of
>> positions. Just my .02
>> Regards,
>> Drew
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Shapira, Yoav []
>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 1:24 PM
>> To: Tomcat Users List
>> Subject: RE: Apache/Tomcat/Struts Certification Proposal
>> Howdy,
>> >What if you had two experienced engineers, but only one of them had a
>> ASF
>> >certification??
>> >Which one would you hire?
>> I don't know, but the certification would not likely be the deciding
>> factor.  It would come down to the relevance of the experience,
>> familiarity with the industry, etc, there's a long list of factors that
>> would come before the presence/absence of an ASF certification.
>> But of course, that's just me ;)
>> Yoav Shapira
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struts 1.1 + tomcat 5.0.16 + java 1.4.2
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