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From "neal" <>
Subject RE: [OFF-TOPIC] RE: RewriteRules and Standalone Tomcat
Date Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:05:12 GMT
Yes but its not that simple.  So many factors would play into each
individuals site's break down.  If you don't focus on them, if you don't
optimize for them, and if you have significant other sources of traffic of
course that will throw off the thing ... particularly if you have
relationships through these midlets.

No doubt every site is different but search engines are still the yellow
pages of the Internet and with the Internet verging on information overload,
ppl are bound to rely even more on central directories are
engines....particularly for new and lesser known sites.

If we are to truly contest these numbers we would have to look at sooo many
different factors and a rather large cross-section.

I hear what you're saying that it is entirely possible to be autonomous from
the engines, but many people ... I would venture to say most are not! But I
guess that's all speculation unless we care to undertake a dramatic new
survey of Internet and search engine usage patterns.  ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Eaves []
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:59 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: [OFF-TOPIC] RE: RewriteRules and Standalone Tomcat

Hiya Neal (and others)

As a counterpoint to your argument about search engines and
small sites I have some real numbers:

 From my website referrer stats:
(For an Apache HTTP:

Direct requests : 28% : 1.5%
Google images : 0.7% : 0.3% : 0.15% : 0.15% : 0.11% : 0.09% : 0.08% : 0.06% : 0.03% : 0.03% : 0.03% : 0.03% : 0.02%

The rest of the traffic is from a whole load of
Java MIDlet portals.

Total search engines combined: ~4%

Now, I'm not running or anything like that but for
a personal website I get an average of 30,000 hits a month, and
I suspect that the only way that people find my site would be:

1. Signature links in email
2. Search engines

It's not like anybody is going to be trying to guess my URL just
to see what is there ;-)

And the best thing is that I have a site that is just running
Tomcat, on a wacky URL to compare this against:

Direct requests : 55% : 15% : 9%
google : 6% : 5% : 1% : 1%

Now, I don't trust these numbers as much because the hits are
so much lower 2000 hits a month, but it's clear in my case that
there is no, or little "penalty" for whatever behaviour Tomcat might

Of course, YMMV, batteries not includes, offer void where prohibited
by law.

	-- jon

neal wrote:
> You're comparing apples and oranges .. and pears (staying with the
> ;-)).  A high profile site of course does not need the engines to the same
> extent as a small site.  Additionally, a small site with a mature link
> (100s or 1000s of grade A links) will not recieve as much traffic from
> either.  For a new site (first year or so) its just the opposite.
> I was including places like Yahoo!, AOL, when I refer to search engine.
> Granted these are CPCs (fake search engines) but nonetheless google
> has 80% of the search engine market ... as for the 80% of traffic coming
> from search engines - its a statistic I recently read in a book.  I can
> it up for you if interested.  If sounds though like the truth of this
> statistic has a lot to do with whether you're comparing apples ... oranges
> ... or pears.
> As for switching to Apache with 1hr work ... I'm also bucking that just
> because (a) my ISP will want to get involved and charge me hourly for the
> setup of an addt'l app and (b) I will have to get another $300 SSL cert
> Trawte if I go that road.  Sigh.
> Neal

Jon Eaves <>

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