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From "V. Cekvenich" ...@basebeans.com>
Subject Re: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !
Date Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:52:53 GMT
Using Tomcat beacuse it's free is a mistake. You should allways use the 
best:
http://www.opensource.org/advocacy/case_for_business.php

In general Tomcat is less buggy than comercial products.

Also, I do ecourage you to get paid support from Oracle, BEA, etc. See 
how they support you, since you pay them.


Some people think you look cool in Gucci shades wearing Verace.
Others:
http://www.sdtimes.com/news/063/story2.htm

You can foucs on spending more and doing less or on doing more and 
spending less.


.V

Michael Nicholson wrote:
> And there is the final answer... or at least the bottom line.  In general in
> life, you get what you pay for.  We're lucky... with Tomcat we get a WHOLE
> LOT MORE.  I think it took me three or four days to get tomcat running jsps
> and servlets, mainly because the guy in charge of our system had a JDK 1.3
> running, and things weren't happy.  I don't know if he had done something
> strange or what, but once I installed a JDK 1.4 and pointed tomcat at it, it
> ran fine.  Mind you, I was also doing this while learning about JDKs, jsps,
> servlets, and java, so I didn't put ALL of my effort into it.
> 
> And my background is "technical."  I spent the last two years as an
> assistant fencing coach, but before that I spent a little bit of time using
> excel and visual basic for applications (which has complete documentation,
> might I add!  And may I also add, I hope to NEVER USE IT AGAIN.  I didn't
> like VBA very much...:))  Then I started using Access and VBA, and then when
> we wanted to take it online, I started learning Java, jsps, tomcat, etc.
> 
> And yes, every now and then I wish there were a better indexed, nicely
> formatted set of documentation.  I dwell on that for a good 15 seconds, open
> up google, search the archives, mess around trying things, ask questions,
> and before long, whatever didn't work, does.
> 
> I think the vast majority of us are happy with this.  If not, please send
> your self address stamped envelope to the following address for a full
> refund:
> 
> <SillyAddressTag id="foo" name="foo" value="Whatever silly address you want"
> />
> 
> Oh well, and least all that undergraduate work in Chemistry is paying
> off...:)
> 
> In a whimsical mood,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hamilton, Andrew" <Andrew.Hamilton@afccc.af.mil>
> To: "Tomcat Users List" <tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:46 AM
> Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !
> 
> 
> You know what really bothers me about this whole thread:  Tomcat is free.
> What right does anyone have to complain about free stuff?  That's like
> complaining cause someone gave you free beer but it said Generic on the
> label.  It might not go down as smoothly but the effect is the same.  I
> setup Tomcat without problems in minutes.  But then again I read the docs.
> It was a challenge to get through some of them but I managed to do it.  Me,
> I only have 8 years of experience as a developer and systems admin.  All
> that experience must be doing something to the guys brain like turning it to
> mush.  I'm a serious advocate of open source in all its guises and I do
> appreciate this list and the help I get from it.  Fortunately I don't have
> to ask many questions because mostly I can search the archives and someone
> has asked it before me and gotten the answer.  So for my part I want to
> thank you all.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Drew
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Turner, John [mailto:JTurner@AAS.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:33 AM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !
> 
> 
> 
> You're forgetting that Tomcat is a reference implementation.  Nobody is
> positioning it as a be-all, end-all commercial solution.
> 
> If you use JRUN, you are tied to Macromedia forever.  You automatically lose
> portability, you automatically lose customer base because there are many
> tech-savvy customers out there who are very aware that the same
> functionality can be had for free, you automatically lose the ability to
> adapt the product to your needs, and you automatically put the
> responsibility for the security of your company's (and your customers')
> intellectual property and proprietary information into the hands of a
> third-party company that a) has no fiduciary responsibility to you, your
> customers, or your company (read Macromedia's EULA), and b) is driven solely
> by profit.  Talk about a house of cards.
> 
> So, if you'd like to abdicate all of that responsibility in return for a
> nicely bound paperback book with icons and a table of contents, and a nice
> installer that does things to your system in a fashion that prevents you
> from ever finding out exactly what it did and why, then by all means
> purchase JRUN or any other product.  Don't make the bogus jump from that
> decision process to a decision process that leads you to believe that JRUN
> is better just because it has documentation.
> 
> Your 20 years of technical experience sure hasn't helped you with your
> reasoning, logic, and deduction skills.  Perhaps a Critical Thinking class
> at the local community college would be beneficial.
> 
> BTW, if you'd like to pay me $1000 (same price as JRUN), I'll write the best
> documentation you've ever seen, and even put it into a nice little book for
> you.  But then, that would be proving how ridiculous your posts, reasoning,
> and assumptions are, and I have a feeling you're not that dumb.
> 
> John
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike DiChiappari [mailto:mdichiappari@domanisoft.com]
>>Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 7:37 PM
>>To: Tomcat Users List
>>Subject: RE: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !
>>
>>
>>Notice that I didn't ask a question JOEL BERGMAN (are you a Jakarta
>>developer).  I simply chimed in when someone else expressed
>>dissatisfaction with this list.  I have been disappointed and
>>frustrated by the **** that is called documentation.  I stopped
>>trying to get tomcat to work properly over a year ago.  Recently I
>>looked into it again, and noticed little to no improvement.
>>
>>Note that my background is technical, with over twenty years of
>>building commercial quality software.  I don't believe in a lot of
>>pie-in-the-sky ideals in terms of software development.  I rate
>>software on three important criteria: does it do what it is intended,
>>can it be used easily, and is it maintainable.
>>
>>In terms of tomcat, I give it a grade of incomplete on all three of
>>the above.  I can not tell if it does what its supposed to because I
>>can't get it to work with a reasonable amount of effort.
>>
>>Here if my contribution to Jarkata and people looking for a low cost
>>Java solution.  Use JRUN (discalimer: I am not affiliated with
>>Macromedia in any way).  It is under $1000 and includes a full J2EE
>>implementation (JSP, servlets, EJB).  It looks like the installer
>>does all the stuff that mod_jk, mod_jk2, and mod_web are supposed to
>>(if anyone could get them to work).  A development version is
>>available for free.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: Mike DiChiappari [mailto:mdichiappari@domanisoft.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 4:37 PM
>>>> To: Tomcat Users List
>>>> Subject: Re: I don´t understand the objective of this open list !
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know the reason for this list - at least as it applies
>>>
>>to Jakarta.
>>
>>>> It is meant to address the complete lack of adequate documentation
>>>> for tomcat.
>>>
>>>Are you volunteering to write some, Mike DiChiappari?  That
>>
>>is how things
>>
>>>get done: someone DOES them.
>>>
>>>If you don't know enough, you could skim the mailing list looking for
>>>questions, finding out when they were answered to the questioner's
>>>satisfaction, and using that as your source material.
>>>
>>>Or do you just want answers to YOUR questions?
>>>
>>>--- Noel
>>>
>>>
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