tomcat-users mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Phillip Morelock <subscripti...@phillipmorelock.com>
Subject Re: Does Tomcat want to stand alone?
Date Wed, 05 Jun 2002 02:58:41 GMT
On 6/3/02 9:24 PM, "Gus Heck" <sparverius@telocity.com> wrote:

> Your response is helpful, though I can't tell if it will help until I check
> out struts, and attempt to create a dispacher like you describe. At least
> now I have some more leads... still it seems that there should be a simple
> option that provides the simple functionality. Flexability and power is
> great, but sometimes one only wants part of the power... and just wants the
> rest to work like it does elsewhere.
> 
> I am not yet at the point where I am writing full scale web apps. I hope to
> do that sort of thing eventually, but for the moment I just want the ability
> to do some dynamic content,

Understandable.  I still use PHP for this purpose.

> and respond to forms taking advantage of the
> relatively safe, and secure Java platform to keep people from doing nasty
> things to my home server when I don't quite check cgi input right or screw
> up the permissions on a script.

Security is definitely one of the best reasons to use Java.  I do think
security stuff has improved considerably since the "olden days" of cgi --
and I think that less-powerful-but-more-specialized solutions (like PHP) are
also considerably more secure than they used to be.

> My impression of Tomcat is that one winds up having to learn ALL of it's
> features at once. It is also very hard to find out answers to simple things
> on their web site... like how do you turn off directory indexing in Tomcat?
> I can find stuff on security managers, jndi and class loaders, but whenever
> I have a simple question I get stuck.

I don't know that you have to learn *all* of the features.  But I will
definitely grant you that working with Servlet/JSP stuff is much more
application programming than simple scripting.  People looking to use JSP as
an easy scripting platform are in for some hard times.

Again, nothing to feel bad about -- there are a thousand other things that
someone like me hasn't learned -- I just happened to like tomcat when I
first used it, and I stuck with it for application development, but
certainly not for the sort of quick cgi type of stuff, as I find it
cumbersome for that.

> 
> Thanks,
> Gus

Cheers,
Phillip

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phillip Morelock" <subscriptions@phillipmorelock.com>
> To: "Tomcat Users List" <tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Does Tomcat want to stand alone?
> 
> 
>>> But this is within the servlet/jsp page, not the config file. unless I
>>> misunderstand you. there is no response until a page has been settled on
> for
>>> processing right? This means to redirect a request I would have to have
> a
>>> phantom page that tomcat decided to serv that then redirected to the
> real
>>> page. One of the top features of redirection is to have the user ask for
> one
>>> thing, and not need it to exist physically on the file system.
>>> 
>>> Of course I may be entirely missing something here :)
>> 
>> You are  :)
>> 
>> First, look into frameworks like struts.  They do exactly what you're
>> talking about.  (Struts is another jakarta project).  Second, get creative
>> with your servlet mappings:  check out the servlet specification for
> what's
>> allowed in a servlet mapping.  The thing about the servlet / jsp
>> specifications, they are really supposed to be broad bases that are highly
>> portable and highly flexible, at the expense of some of the "convenience"
>> features of an environment like ASP or PHP.
>> 
>> Struts uses this paradigm:
>> *.do
>> 
>> or *.action or whatever file extension.  Struts catches all requests for
>> *.do and dynamically instantiates appropriate developer-defined handlers
> for
>> these actions.  It's very cool.
>> 
>> Second, even with struts or without it, I've written very simple servlets
>> (like 50 lines) that essentially are "mini-dispatchers" -- they
>> load-on-startup and read a flat file of forwarding dispatches.  That way
> you
>> can forward any request like:
>> fandango/*
>> to a particular servlet and from that servlet you can check out the url
> and
>> see where you want to dispatch it (this is very easy -- but again, struts
>> does this all "automagically" and securely for you).  I don't remember the
>> exact details of every servlet-mapping rule, but the spec is usually very
>> helpful in that.
>> 
>> I also have some friends at a very high-profile entertainment company who
>> use WebLogic (off topic...) and they use the Struts framework in that
>> environment for an extremely high-traffic, high-security, yadda yadda
>> deployment that has exactly the kinds of flexibility requirements you're
>> asking for.  Struts is written to the servlet spec, so it's almost
>> invariably portable.
>> 
>> You might not know about the request dispatcher object too.
>> javax.servlet.http.RequestDispatcher -- or maybe it's
>> javax.servlet.RequestDispatcher.  This has a "forward" method that allows
>> you to internally forward a request on the server to another servlet or
> jsp.
>> In fact this is how my apps work -- servlets take all user input, and do
> all
>> the processing / database work / error-intensive / security-conscious
> tasks,
>> etc. -- and then forward the request to a simple display-only jsp (after
>> putting items into the request scope hashtable).  This is kind of the
>> "right" way to do things, although there are obviously a million shades of
>> gray.  I can forward to A.jsp if condition A is satisfied, or B.jsp
>> otherwise, etc.
>> 
>> Does this help?
>> 
>> cheers
>> fillup
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/3/02 6:17 PM, "Gus Heck" <sparverius@telocity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> But this is within the servlet/jsp page, not the config file. unless I
>>> misunderstand you. there is no response until a page has been settled on
> for
>>> processing right? This means to redirect a request I would have to have
> a
>>> phantom page that tomcat decided to serv that then redirected to the
> real
>>> page. One of the top features of redirection is to have the user ask for
> one
>>> thing, and not need it to exist physically on the file system.
>>> 
>>> Of course I may be entirely missing something here :)
>>> 
>>> Actually I expect that I am missing something which is why I have asked
>>> tomcat users :)
>>> 
>>> Gus
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Phillip Morelock" <subscriptions@phillipmorelock.com>
>>> To: "Tomcat Users List" <tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Does Tomcat want to stand alone?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> response.encodeUrl  for url rewriting methinks....
>>>> 
>>>> I almost invariably use Tomcat as a standalone server, for your average
>>>> website where you might use something like php or whatever, but you
> want a
>>>> more "robust" application design, it's fine.
>>>> 
>>>> Content negotiation is a pit I have not stepped into, maybe someone
> else
>>> can
>>>> speak more to that.
>>>> 
>>>> fillup
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/3/02 5:29 PM, "Gus Heck" <sparverius@telocity.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been playing with tomcat a little bit, I like JSP, and it does
> that
>>> well,
>>>>> but when it comes to operating on it's own as a web server, I have
> been
>>> a bit
>>>>> frustrated. I don't seem to be able to find mechanisms in Tomcat that
>>> support
>>>>> things like URL rewriting or content negotiation. Granted that content
>>>>> negotiation can be acheived with java code, and I suspect one could
> also
>>> write
>>>>> java to do something that aproximated rewriting, but these are
> standard
>>>>> features of most web servers, and I am wondering if this functionality
>>> exists
>>>>> and I am not finding it within tomcat, or if there are implementations
>>> of this
>>>>> functionality available somewhere. It seems silly to have to write
> this
>>> sort
>>>>> of thing that is standard on other servers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If not, is this something Tomcat is working towards?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm fond of metaphors, so let me ask it another way:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is Tomcat destined to be as independant as it's namesake, or is it
>>> really a
>>>>> housecat that will always be found sitting in the window at 1 httpd
> way?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> <mailto:tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> <mailto:tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
> 


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>


Mime
View raw message