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From "J. Eric Smith" <esm...@digitalforge.com>
Subject RE: mod_webapp/Tomcat4 ready for production level stuff?
Date Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:35:48 GMT
I'd love to cough up a few thousand for Weblogic, but at this stage of
the project it's not funded beyond hardware costs.  It's a technology
demonstrator for a non-profit entity at this point and they don't have
$20k for two Weblogic licenses.  Six months from now might be a
different story, and I'm strongly leaning towards that solution as a
long-term thing.  But if I can START with TC and KEEP TC, I'd like to.
Switching platforms in the middle is a pain I'd like to avoid if
possible.

And there's no guarantee (especially in THIS economy) that this project
will grow to billions of dollars and thousands of users.  If it doesn't,
the client doesn't want to be in the hole for two Weblogic licenses for
a defunct site.  And my time spent researching this is a "freebie" on
this project.  Pro bono stuff has unfortunately permeated our sales
staff as a way to get follow-on sales.  I don't agree with the practice,
but I have to work within the framework given to me.

 
J. Eric Smith
esmith@digitalforge.com <mailto:esmith@digitalforge.com> 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: DONNIE HALE [mailto:DHALE@longaberger.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:55 AM
To: tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: RE: mod_webapp/Tomcat4 ready for production level stuff?


All those things may very well be true re: TC4. However, if you're
looking at "billion dollar revenues" and "24x7x265 for 50,000 users",
the time you're spending researching Tomcat would have paid for
WebLogic. Cough up the few grand per CPU for WebLogic and put yourself
out of your misery. :)

Donnie


>>> esmith@digitalforge.com 11/28/01 10:34AM >>>
I'd love to be able to wait around for TC4 to get "stable", but I have
to make a decision within a week or so, and I don't think anything major
is going to happen in that timeframe.

I've heard the same thing many places:  TC is being used for small scale
stuff.  I need something that's going to show scalability in a big way,
as this is going to start out very, very tiny and may ultimately grow to
something huge (think billion dollar revenues and you know what I mean).
TC may be fine to play with right now, but can I trust it to something
that's got to run 24x7x365 for 50,000 users a year from now?  If
mod_webapp is the best they can do, then the Apache group has a LOT of
work to do.

Further, I'd like to comment on what "stable" ought to mean.  For
Tomcat, stable apparently means that if you can get it to work, it will
usually work somewhat okay.  Gee, I'd hate to see what the "development"
stuff means.  Stable should mean "production ready".  I mean Apache-like
stablity, with good docs and modules that actually function as
advertised.  Mod_webapp has left an awful taste in my mouth after
working with REAL "production-ready" connector modules like
mod_weblogic.  If the whole project was listed in "beta" status, I'd be
more forgiving, but the current state is not anywhere near what I'd call
"production".  Maybe TC3x is, but not TC4, not if you plan to attach it
to a real webserver (use mod_jk?  Sure, where are the docs?  OHH!  In
the TC3x docs!  Sure, THAT'S the logical place, right?  And I'm sure
it's been thoroughly tested, too).  

Read the TC4 docs and FAQ's and you'll find numerous references that
indicate some function isn't yet implemented, or this doesn't work yet,
or that'll be fixed sometime soon.  That is intolerable for real
business work.  TC4 should not be listed as production ready in its
current state.  It's my opinion, and it may be wrong, but if someone is
using TC4 and mod_webapp in a mission critical situation, I'd love to
hear from them, because thus far I've heard nothing to convince me
otherwise.

 
J. Eric Smith
esmith@digitalforge.com <mailto:esmith@digitalforge.com> 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Bickerton [mailto:abickerton@opaltelecom.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:16 AM
To: Tomcat User list
Subject: RE: mod_webapp/Tomcat4 ready for production level stuff?


Hi,

I currently work in an ISP, we are using Tomcat exclusively to handle
ALL our JSP / Servlet & EJB apps, we have never seen an outage due to
tomcat, and the performace 
has never given us reason to be concerned.
TC4 is currently being used to provide B2B services to clients on a
fairly small scale, however the server loads indicate that scaling would
not present any significant problems.

(No complaints yet)

The TC4 architecture seems to be more flexible than previous releases.

However, 

I have been migrating some of our systems to tomcat4 from tc3 and have
come across a few teething problems. I'm sure these will be worked out
in few maintenance releases, It's a case of suck it and see.

28/11/2001 14:47:26, "Carl Boudreau" <carl.boudreau@notiva.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>	I'm involved in developing a large B2B web application.  I'd
like to 
>know what you end up doing, Web logic's price seems to be way to high
>to ask a customer to purchase it.  We are looking at open source too.
>
>Carl
>
>
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