tomcat-taglibs-user mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "Jerome Jacobsen" <jerome.jacob...@gentootech.com>
Subject RE: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
Date Tue, 04 Feb 2003 18:24:18 GMT
What does Javadoc document?  Java.  I think it is too much to ask most page
designers to understand JavaBeans which means understanding Java types
(primitive, wrappers, Collections, Maps).  And then they'd need to
understand this Expression Language and its type conversion/coercion rules.
Not to mention understanding JSP/servlet scopes and visibility.  I agree
that making the page script free is a good step, however "programming" with
XML syntax tags as opposed to scripts is still programming.  To a degree
they still need to understand the run-time context that they are programming
in and things like whether <c:set var='beanA' value='${beanB}'/> does a deep
copy of beanB or just creates a reference.

With XMLC you separate the skill sets better.  The programmer doesn't need
to know the view.  The programmer takes the DOM and looks for XHTML IDs and
replaces/adds dynamic content to these nodes depending on the ID.  I really
don't know much more about it than that as I've never used it.  However if I
were to start a project where there was a requirement that non-programmer
page designers design the pages I would definitely look into something like
XMLC over JSP.

That's just my opinion though.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric.Lewis@swissinfo.ch [mailto:Eric.Lewis@swissinfo.ch]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: taglibs-user@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
>
>
> I disagree... By using a scriptfree TLD (as described in "JSTL In
> Action"),
> you can very well restrict your web designers to use only JSTL
> (or whatever
> tags you want them to use). Our web designers aren't allow to publish any
> JSP pages unless the first line reads
> <%@ taglib prefix="scriptfree" uri="/WEB-INF/scriptfree.tld" %>
>
> Also, we haven't used anything but JSTL up to now (ok, except for
> the String
> Tag Library, which is handy...). Frankly, I don't see the point
> in creating
> custom tags yourself at all.
>
> I don't know Enhydra, but from what you write, I as a programmer
> don't want
> to have anything to do with the View part of MVC. I give the web designers
> the objects, and the rest is their work :-)  But of course they
> need a good
> documentation (Javadoc in our case) of the objects which they can use.
>
> Best regards,
> Eric
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerome Jacobsen [mailto:jerome.jacobsen@gentootech.com]
> > Sent: Dienstag, 4. Februar 2003 17:47
> > To: Tag Libraries Users List
> > Subject: RE: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
> >
> >
> > JSTL or not, I'd say that non-Java programmers can write JSPs
> > only if the
> > project has some very strict guidelines and very good
> > documentation on those
> > guidelines and your custom tags.  You would have to design
> > the guidelines to
> > be very restrictive of what tags you allow in the JSP.  These
> > restrictions
> > should be designed so that the JSP writer does not need to
> > have a complete
> > understanding of how JSPs work.  Setting up all of this I
> > think would be a
> > lot of work.
> >
> > Instead I'd recommend something like Enhydra/XMLC
> (http://www.enhydra.org/).
> In this framework the page writers write HTML.  Java programmers
> write code
> to insert the dynamic content into a DOM version of the HTML.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lyndon Durham [mailto:net.reality@verizon.net]
> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:55 PM
> > To: Tag Libraries Users List
> > Subject: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
> >
> >
> > Greetings,
> >                 As a software developer I would like to delegate some of
> > the more mundane and simpler development tasks to non developers,
> > programmers etc.  The JSTL specification document claims that the jstl
> > was created to facilitate or ease development for web designers and non
> > java programmers. It is my experience that jstl and other taglibs like
> > jakarta standard taglibs are still rather convulted for the likes of
> > wyswig web designers and other non java programmers.  What is the point
> > of developing applications that make succint use of jstl if as the
> > developer I still have to spend myraid hours explaining how to use tags
> > to the less initated or persons who are not programmers or developers.
> > All comments are appreciated or anyone whose had a better experience
> > delgating developing using taglibs.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-user-help@jakarta.apache.org


Mime
View raw message