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From "Renick, Garrel" <>
Subject RE: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
Date Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:54:42 GMT
This is an interesting topic, and people obviously have 
strong opinions about successes and failures at using 
this technology within their work environments. 

My viewpoint is that JSTL provides a nice set of 
features that most page designers with some programming 
experience will be able to use, especially 
if they spend the time to learn about the web 
application environment (request/response, scope, etc.)
and get a good reference like Manning's "JSTL in Action".
Many work environments need web applications for simple 
tasks of presenting dynamic data, and JSTL is 
perfect for that. As the designers become more familiar 
with the technology, they can move on to more sophisticated 
projects that use frameworks such as Struts.

I think part of the problem with this discussion is the notion 
that team members fit nicely in roles such as developer, 
page designer, and graphics artist. Jeez, the original poster 
even differentiated himself (the 'developer') from programmers and 
that distinction baffles me. I would guess that few shops have staff 
that fit so nicely into these roles, but instead there is a blending 
of disciplines and each staff member has one or more specialties. 
I have programming experience in other languages and web design experience, 
but I don't have the entire Java API under my belt (yet). For people 
like me that constantly deal with the view aspect of a project but 
also have some programming experience, JSTL offers a nice standards-based 
middle-ground where I can contribute. Conversely, if I was a pure graphics 
artist without programming experience, then I would have no interest in 
learning JSTL, even if it does look like HTML, and you'd be a fool to 
think that voila!, I could instantly understand the techniques for 
using JSTL to accomplish some tasks.

In the end, I would try to use the right tool to solve a problem, and
my choice would affected by the environment and experience of staff.
I'm sure there are many cases where JSTL is a perfect choice 
and many others where attempting to use JSTL is unacceptable.

Garrel Renick

-----Original Message-----
From: Felipe Schnack []
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:12 PM
To: Tag Libraries Users List
Subject: RE: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs

  But your designers can handle EL when they need to?
  And I never say any problems with WYSIWYG tools like Dreamweaver...
and design teams I worked with used it... maybe we do simpler things,
but it worked...

On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 17:59, wrote:

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