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From Pierre Delisle <>
Subject Re: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
Date Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:02:43 GMT wrote:
> Hello-
> Forgive my comments as they are not technical.  Just observations I have made on a few
projects over the past couple months.
> Since there are very few java programmers who are designers, and vice versa - there must
be a comfortable zone where designers/developers can integrate their works without battles.
 I have found that there is little place for a WYSIWYG design team outside of prototyping,
this becomes even more evident as applications evolve.  In a recent project we migrated JSP
1.1 code and old ratty HTML code to jsp1.2/struts, with XHTML and CSS-P on the client side.
 I have found that having good designers that write good XHTML code and use CSS have the foundation
to understand the MVC approach - After all they are doing the same thing with the style and
layout that java developers try to do with the model, view and controller.
> All the java developers I work with understand the view layer, and all the designers
understand how the model and controller fits into their design.  I think XHTML helps out a
lot. And I have seen it.  I sit on both sides of the fence; I do some view design but mostly
backend.  Some days I am in Jdeveloper some days I am in dreamweaver validating XHTML pages.
 I have a lot of people like me on my team and it just works.
> If you are stuck with crummy designers that don't get the backend at all, giving them
a set of tags to use won't help the situation.  Educating them will.  If they don't want to
learn, send them back to the marketing department to work on the new web designers business
cards.  Just because their designers doesn't mean they shouldn't understand the backend, and
vice versa.
> Sorry for the long message.
> -chris


Actually, it is not long enough, I'd like to hear more :-)

Could you give some specifics on how XHTML did help. What are
the typical interactions between the designers and the developers?
How much back and forth happens between the two groups? Anyone
has ownership of the page at the end of the day?


    -- Pierre

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