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From Evan Schnell <>
Subject Re: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
Date Tue, 04 Feb 2003 18:44:33 GMT
Jerome Jacobsen wrote:

>What does Javadoc document?  Java.  I think it is too much to ask most page
>designers to understand JavaBeans which means understanding Java types
>(primitive, wrappers, Collections, Maps).  And then they'd need to
>understand this Expression Language and its type conversion/coercion rules.
>Not to mention understanding JSP/servlet scopes and visibility.  I agree
>that making the page script free is a good step, however "programming" with
>XML syntax tags as opposed to scripts is still programming.  To a degree
>they still need to understand the run-time context that they are programming
>in and things like whether <c:set var='beanA' value='${beanB}'/> does a deep
>copy of beanB or just creates a reference.
I think the suggestion that Web developers are solely responsible for 
all JSPs in overly dogmatic.  I have been  quite successful in 
situations where Web Developers are completely responsible for all pages 
that don't contain forms.  For the ones that do, typically about 20% of 
the site, a more collaborative approach is required.  The form rendering 
etc. is still handled by the web developers but the first cut, including 
anything in the header to actually handle the request is written by a 
Java programmer.  

I do not know of a case where a web developer has used a <c:set or 
<c:catch tag.  Likewise, we have never seen them run into any problems 
with Java types.  "There is a thing called a that has something called 
b" has been adequate up to now.  If they need to do a complicated 
conditional we would either have a programmer write it or make a custom 

IMHO: The whole reason for the JSTL was to create a standard.  Using XML 
tools to hide it seems counterproductive.

Regards, Evan

Evan Schnell, Technical Lead
nVISIA, Twin Cities  "Digital Architecture and Construction"
7701 France Ave. S, Edina, MN 55435
Voice: 952.837.2577 -- Fax: 952.837.2578 -- Mobile: 612.232.5972

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