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From "Vinay" <vi...@mdp.net>
Subject Re: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs
Date Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:57:57 GMT
This is a very interesting discussion , at this point I would like to join
this discussion and express my concerns and opinions.
I am basically a Java  programmer, using struts for our software
development. Even though I am right now doing both design work using JSTL-EL
and development I can't really make the web pages beautiful. I don't use any
IDE or any tools though for any of the stuff.

So we may have a designer soon and the concern is that most designers I
think will not have knowledge of JSTL .I don't know how difficult it is to
make the designer knowledgeable about JSTL tags ,Java Objects or Java beans
and  even if we may allow the designer to do the web page design using some
tool like dreamweaver , still there be lot of  burden upon  the programmer
to embed the JSTL-EL tags into the JSP pages. It also requires the developer
to use a tool such as Dreamweaver to edit the web designer's code,which may
cause some discrepancies in the design(this might not be true,just my
guess). But I still think that JSTL-EL is the way to go as it really helps
define a view logic (user interface)without any scriplets.

Vinay




----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lin" <tcw00lfel@yahoo.com>
To: "Tag Libraries Users List" <taglibs-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs


>
> >From past experience there are alot of people who like
> the cold fusion style of page authoring. If you've
> ever looked at cold fusion tags and page syntax, JSTL
> is very similar.
>
>
> Even though tag like syntax has been around for a
> while, many people are still unconfortable with them.
> There's several reasons for this from personal
> experience. Page authors who use WYSIWYG editors and
> don't understand the difference between <p> and <div>
> abhore looking at tags. You don't want these people
> working on pages anyway.
>
>
> On the otherhand, experience HTML coders who write
> html by hand find it a nice environment that allows
> them to do some simple markup logic w/o learning java.
> I had to train junior developer in the past that
> primarily used WYSIWYG editors. Once they got used to
> hand coding html, using tag was preferable to writing
> java.
>
>
> Power comes a cost of learning, so if people find
> their page authors are unwilling to put forth the
> effort, then there's not much you can do.  I won't
> mention companies, but there are other BIG players
> that are moving towards tag syntax in their product
> line for webservices.
>
> peter
>
>
> --- Glenn Nielsen <glenn@mail.more.net> wrote:
> > Pierre Delisle wrote:
> > > Also, I'd be very interested in hearing about the
> > type of
> > > environment you work in for the development of
> > dynamic
> > > web applications. That should help us understand
> > as a community
> > > the usage profiles and their bias :-)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >     -- Pierre
> >
> > All of the discussion so far on this topic has made
> > the assumption
> > that those using this technology are part of a
> > development team.
> > A team that may include graphic designers, web
> > designers, programmers,
> > dba's, and architects where design concepts like MVC
> > can be implemented.
> > This assumption holds up for the most part for
> > businesses which use
> > this technology for web enabling the enterprise.
> >
> > For our own inhouse development we follow this model
> > also, although
> > our team is very small (3-4 people), and most of the
> > team can fulfill
> > multiple roles.
> >
> > My organization provides email and web site hosting
> > for non profit organizations
> > and schools. The types of organizations which can't
> > afford to hire a development
> > team or hire expensive consultants to design complex
> > applications.  But these
> > customers often have a need to add some sort of
> > simple dynamic content to their
> > web sites.  Generally those who maintain these web
> > sites are not programmers.
> > A better term to describe them would be page
> > authors.  Technologies such as
> > JSP pages with custom tags, especially the Standard
> > Taglib, can lower the
> > technology barrier to a point where some adventurous
> > page authors can invest
> > the time to learn enough about these technologies to
> > create simple applications
> > which adds dynamic content to their web site.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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