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From Antonio Petrelli <antonio.petre...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Move to Maven? (WAS: Re: Publishing process for JARs for Maven Central)
Date Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:36:41 GMT
2011/12/17 Mark Thomas <markt@apache.org>

> On 17/12/2011 20:24, Antonio Petrelli wrote:
> > Ok, let's do it again :-D
> > 1. Standardization. Maven strongly encourages to use a standardized
> > structure. The source should go into src/main/java, the resources in
> > src/main/resources etc. You can change it, but this is discouraged. With
> > Ant you always do things differently for different projects.
>
> What benefit is this to the Tomcat community? I see a change, but no
> benefit.
>

So standardization is no benefit? Do you mean that an external developer,
that sees a common project structure that can start working on it easily,
is not a benefit?


> > 2. Modularization. Separation between modules is strong, i.e. one jar-one
> > source directory. In the case of Tomcat, there is a big big trouble: one
> > single big source directory. Separating them will be one of the most
> > important step to do.
>
> Why is that an issue? Switching to a single source tree was one of the
> best changes we ever made. It has been much easier to manage than the
> multiple source trees we had in the past.


Sincerely, this is the worst thing that you have made. Do you think that
having a single source tree and letting Ant script reconstruct in some
non-obvious way the jars, is a benefit?


> The dependencies are known and
> we have checks in place (via Checkstyle) to ensure that unwanted
> dependencies are not added.


Checkstyle checks unwanted *imports* not dependencies.


> Again, what is the benefit here to the
> Tomcat community? There has been some interest but very little activity
> towards greater modularity. If there was more interest in increasing
> modularity then there might be a case for this but given Tomcat's remit
> of implementing the Servlet and JSP specs there is very little that
> could be made modular / optional. Jasper and EL are already optional
> (well, they can be removed) and pretty much everything else is required
> by the Servlet spec.
>

Real modularity means: one source directory -> one jar. In other cases, it
is not obvious.


>
> > 3. Metadata-driven process. The build process is driven by metadata
> (where
> > the source is? where should I deploy it?) and not by commands (compile
> the
> > source that is in that point, deploy it in that repository)
>
> Again, how does this benefit the Tomcat community?
>

The benefit is that the pom.xml is similar to other projects. After you see
a kind of project, you see almost them all.


>
> > 4. POMs are (almost) universal. Projects of the same kind have almost the
> > same content..
>
> How does this benefit the Tomcat community?
>

See above.


> > 5. Plug-ins do generically what pieces of Ant's script do specifically.
> For
> > example take the Maven assembly plugin: via a descriptor you obtain a zip
> > file to distribute.
>
> That sounds like just a different way of doing things. What is the benefit?
>

You don't need to maintain a build script, but only use a plugin. Most of
the time, it's just the matter of including it.


> > 6. When all the metadata is in place, the release process is a matter of
> > launching:
> > mvn release:prepare
> > and
> > mvn release:perform
>
> Right now the release process is:
> ant release
> followed by scp / ftp / 'take your pick' the files to the right place
> and that could be added to the script if we really wanted to (but no-one
> has felt the need to scratch that itch).
>

Does "ant release" tag automatically and prepare for the next snapshot?


> In summary, I see a lot of differences but no benefits. Changing to
> Maven would mean big changes along with some disruption. For the
> community to make those changes and accept that disruption there needs
> to be something in return. So far, I haven't seen anything that I would
> class as a benefit to the community (e.g. faster build process, simpler
> releases, fewer bugs, etc.).
>

You see features where I see benefits of the features, asking the same
question again and again shows your hate, and probably you hate me too,
because I love Maven.
No problem, you'll lose at some point :-D

Antonio

>
> Mark
>
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