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From jkew <j...@sourcelabs.com>
Subject Re: Mavenization (M10N) of Tomcat Build Process - Should Tomcat Be Migrated to Maven 2?
Date Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:48:00 GMT
Paul,

I agree with Costin.

-1 to default
+1 to alternative

Some points:

1. I would be a willing tester.
2. Please make sure versions are put on every plugin / dependency.
3. I have a love/hate relationship with maven. It sort of scares me. 
Debugging maven hurts.
4. On the positive side, I like that a pom file is usually short and 
easy to understand.

Cheers,
John

Bill Barker wrote:
> I'm pretty much going to agree with Costin on this one.  I have no objection 
> to having a maven build as an alternative to the ant build (assuming that it 
> can do the same thing, which I don't really believe without seeing the pom). 
> But most mavenized projects that I have see (e.g. apache-commons) seem to 
> spend much more time on the pom then on the actual module code.  And most of 
> the look-feel of mavenized project's websites frankly s*ck.
>
> Personally, I consider maven to be a virus (downloading files onto my 
> computer without my permission).  M1 is difficult to configure to always run 
> offline, and M2 is close to impossible.
>
> "Costin Manolache" <costin@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:96e4b5230710171526w3877d292l8964c41677ca393f@mail.gmail.com...
>   
>> -1 as well on switching to maven as default ( or back to many source tree
>> 'modules' ).
>>
>> But if you want to create a maven build file ( or a Makefile, or
>> eclipse/netbeans projects, etc :-) that builds tomcat - I personally don't
>> see a problem with that - as long as it doesn't require moving code around
>> and can play nicely with the current code layout and other build tools. I
>> think the 'official' way to build tomcat should remain ant ( at least 
>> until
>> any potential replacement has a large mileage ), but having other 
>> alternate
>> build tools can't hurt.
>>
>> I'm quite happy using mostly eclipse - I hardly ever use ant ( mostly to
>> generate jars and move code around ), the auto-recompilation and fast
>> run/debug/hot-replace in eclipse are saving me a lot of time, but if
>> something faster emerges I'll try it.
>>
>> Costin
>> -1
>>
>> On 10/17/07, Filip Hanik - Dev Lists <devlists@hanik.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> lemme give you my feedback and some history
>>>
>>> Paul Shemansky wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Dear Fellow Tomcat Developers,
>>>>
>>>> As you may have already noticed, I recently joined the ASF and the
>>>> Tomcat Developer's List.  I have been a Maven 2 user since 2005, and I
>>>> previously used Ant for all of my projects.  I suffered through many
>>>> hardships migrating from Ant to Maven, but in my humble opinion, it
>>>> was well worth it.  I believe that the Tomcat build can certainly
>>>> benefit from some of the key features of Maven 2 mentioned below.
>>>>
>>>> It is not my intention to start a flame war between Ant and Maven
>>>> users, but merely to propose Maven 2 to this group, and respectfully
>>>> use this thread to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of
>>>> switching Tomcat's build process within the 6.0.x or possibly 7.0
>>>> release schedule. Please use this thread to voice your opinion.  Reply
>>>> to this message with any comments, and/or simple votes for or against
>>>> the migration to Maven 2.
>>>>
>>>> If by some odd chance you have never seen or heard about Maven 2,
>>>> please visit and explore :
>>>> http://maven.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Key features that may be useful to us are :
>>>>
>>>> - The Standard Directory Layout - Specifically, multi-module builds.
>>>> This might make managing individual components easier for catalina,
>>>> coyote, naming, jsp/servlet api/implementation, connector, etc.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> we just refactored everything from being "component/module" based into a
>>> single source tree.
>>> Everyone at the time agreed that it would make life easier, for me
>>> personally, it was a huge improvement.
>>>       
>>>> - Model-Based builds - Automatic packaging for the individual modules.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> not sure what this is, even though we have a single source tree, we do
>>> generate a list of jars.
>>>       
>>>> - Dependency Management - Whether it is Apache or another third-party,
>>>> dependencies can all easily be plugged in.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> we do that today, crude but working, ANT just adopted Ivy, a dependency
>>> manager for ANT.
>>>       
>>>> - Distribution Management - Packaging and Deployment - Although Tomcat
>>>> has a structured distribution model with Ant, Maven could make this
>>>> easier with its assembly plugin.  This also allows outside entities to
>>>> easily embed specific Tomcat components or customize the server to
>>>> suit their needs, (i.e. containers like Geronimo and JBoss, IDE
>>>> plugins for Eclipse or Tomcat.)
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> We currently have a "distribute to Maven repo" in place.
>>> The most current version is in the sandbox, that would allow us to
>>> publish to the central ASF repo with signed JAR's.
>>> This allows(will allow) other projects that do use Maven, to integrate
>>> tomcat into their system.
>>> You can glance over it here
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/tomcat/sandbox/gdev6x/res/maven/
>>>
>>>       
>>>> - Project Site and Report Generation. - The Tomcat documentation site
>>>> may benefit greatly, but the Maven reporting plugins seem to be the
>>>> bigger win here.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>> As a new ASF / Tomcat contributor, I am hesitant to step on toes.
>>>> But, I vote that we eat the dog food.
>>>>         
>>> and in that last statement is where I think the problem lies. I've
>>> attended a few hackathons where the coders at my table spent most of
>>> their day "eating the dog food".
>>> This has not really been the case with Tomcat, and especially Tomcat 6
>>> simplified version of the structure and build.
>>>
>>> So, speaking for myself, I have yet not seen a benefit of Maven over our
>>> current ANT build. And I wouldn't be up for eating dog food.
>>> water and cracker, although simple, have sustained us very long.
>>>
>>> I'd vote against the proposal, maybe cause I'm just getting to old to
>>> spend hours with Maven, but you should collect feedback from the others
>>> as well, and maybe there is a majority one way or the other.
>>>
>>> Filip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> This migration would certainly
>>>> be something that I could dedicate myself to, and I believe I could
>>>> make the transition seamless for all of us.  I look forward to hearing
>>>> from you.  Whether you vote Yes or No, I am still happy to be working
>>>> with you. :)
>>>>
>>>> Thank You,
>>>> Paul Shemansky
>>>> Maven 2 Evangelist / Open-Source Advocate / Java Code-Monkey
>>>>
>>>> P.S. - Maven has also been covered by the last few issues of JDJ,
>>>> which has certainly given it a lot more public exposure lately :
>>>> http://java.sys-con.com/read/393300.htm
>>>> http://java.sys-con.com/read/400116.htm
>>>> http://java.sys-con.com/read/419727.htm
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
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>>>
>>>
>>>       
>
>
>
>
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