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From Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>
Subject Re: never say never...
Date Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:01:35 GMT
George Sexton wrote:
Whilst I agree with the general thrust of the arguments made so far in
this thread I do take serious issue with one of your statements.

> Just as a little example, several months ago I submitted a patch. One
> committer commented that he would -1 it for the "com.sun" imports. There
> weren't any com.sun imports, and when called on it the committer just gaffed
> me off.
This is not an accurate representation of the facts. The thread can be
read here:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-dev&r=1&s=allowedAliasMatches&q=b&w=4

The commit Bill was referring to is this one:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-dev&m=111788844800136&w=4
that includes
+import com.sun.org.apache.bcel.internal.generic.ALOAD;

Bill did not "gaff you off". He pointed out he was -1 for the commit
on the basis of the import. He also expanded on other areas he had
concerns over.

 So, this committer just flat out lied (or was mistaken and when
> corrected denied the original error)
Accusing someone of lying is a serious allegation and on the basis of
the dev archive clearly not true in this case. I would urge you to
retract your comment.

> Often, when a users
> re-opens these events and asks why, they're re-closed with only "RESOLVED |
> INVALID". If you don't like it (as I don't), go to the "committers" that do
> this. It seems to me that perhaps someone could do a little analysis and
> address the worst offenders.
I agree that closing bug reports without an explanation is rarely, if
ever helpful. A few lines explaining why the bug is invalid / won't be
fixed would help enormously.

That being said, having spent that last couple of years fixing bugs it
is immensely frustrating when having closed a bug report as invalid
(with an explanation and where appropriate a reference to the spec) it
is re-opened with a comment that clearly indicates that the person
re-opening the bug report hasn't bothered to read the previous
comments or the spec.

There is an argument that goes along the lines of "If the person
creating the bug report can't be bothered to read the spec / do some
basic fault finding / provide enough information to reproduce the
fault / read http://tomcat.apache.org/bugreport.html etc why should I
be bothered to explain things to them?". Whilst I do not agree with
this view personally, I can see how people have reached this point and
I do understand the frustration they feel.

To some extent, the old maxim "Garbage in, garbage out" applies. The
community nature of open source is such that the quality of response
you receive is generally directly proportional to the effort you are
prepared to put in. There are always exceptions but in my experience
this rule of thumb applies far more often than it doesn't.

> There won't be courtesy until those people who are the worst offenders are
> punished in some manner, or have their status as committers revoked. After
> all, why should they behave when there is no consequence?
I don't think that punishment is the answer. If you feel someone is
discourteous point it out (privately or publicly - your choice) and
ask them to modify their behaviour. Above all, don't descend to their
level.

>>Think about it, what would the tomcat project be without its users?
Indeed.

Mark


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