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From Wade Chandler <>
Subject Re: never say never...
Date Sat, 25 Feb 2006 00:56:41 GMT
--- "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>

> Glen Mazza wrote:
> > Haroon Rafique wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tuesday at 12:54pm, JB=>Jay Burgess
> <> wrote:
> >>
> >> JB> The following comments are not intended to be
> a personal attack on 
> >> JB> anyone. However, I can't stand by and watch
> George speak my mind 
> >> for JB> me, word for word, and not chime in and
> say "I agree!".  Plus, 
> >> I think JB> if you took a poll, you'd find he
> speaks for a large 
> >> number of list JB> subcribers.
> >> 
> >> Yes Jay, other members have that feeling too. If
> we take a look at the 
> >> recent past, there are various examples of
> rudeness, impropriety and 
> >> lack of respect.
> > 
> > Well, my sympathies are more with the Tomcat
> developer team, given the 
> > abuse they incur from certain unfortunate
> individuals in the user 
> > community.
> You mean by the same unfortunate individuals who
> like to abuse their
> checkout clerk, bank teller and doctor's
> receptionist?  Odd, they tend
> to excuse themselves that they are paying for that
> privilage; Funny
> I don't recall seeing a donation check from them to
> the ASF.
> Bill
I thought about not even writing this.  Then I thought
about not even submitting it.  Don't take it
personally how ever it hits anyone.  I think it's

I think it runs both ways.  I think most of the Tomcat
developers are really great.  I think an unnamed
developer could learn how to be a little nicer.  I
think a good number of users could as well.  There is
no good excuse for simply being mean and nasty for
users nor developers.

Without mentioning any names: If one could see a list
of what contracts and monetary connections are made
through the Apache project for certain members they
would see some things a little differently, and I do
not mean that any of the developers deserve to be
yelled at or belittled.  For instance, I'm sure a few
JBoss customers might find a couple of bugs and
comments associated with them a little disturbing.  I
would imagine a few other commercial customers of
other companies using projects based on Tomcat would
as well.  This based on my own experiences with aiding
in explaining a couple of issues found in Tomcat. 
Some things do not require arguing about.  They simply
need to be looked at and egos need not get in the way.

So, not to kick up the flames, just being real;  I
don't think it is as black and white as some people
would like to believe in relation to volunteering
hours to the project vs being compensated.  The same
can be said about Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.  Many
projects today have incorporated corporate interests
into their ranks (whether it's admitted or not). 
Companies employ people to work on these projects, so
they aren't doing it for free.  Others are
contributing their time to also utilize others time
and selling products based on these open source
projects and making a good amount of money doing so. 
Then some 3rd party softwares based on these solutions
are bought by users.  The company they purchased their
software from spends money in donations or contributes
developers to the projects.  Money = Time and Time =
Money.  Lets face it, if these companies were not
making money from from these open source projects they
would not be contributing.  They like the collective
free time and work, which is also why many contribute
to projects.  Others contribute in their free time one
way or another mostly just for fun.

Anyways, many thanks to the Tomcat developers.  I
think almost every one of them are really great guys.


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